cheesy arty

[olandt]

Try this cheese on. I just did a 2000pt attack scenario as germans against the computer. ALL of my arty was 300mm rockets. (except for a couple of 150mm rockets to round out the points). After the smoke cleared, the computer had 102 casualties out of 250 men and several of his tank were either imobilized or gun damaged. Half the town was flattened. What I want to know is, has anybody actually ever done that in a real game vs an opponent? Come on, fess up!

[Cpl Carrot]

Can't say that I have but there are stories out there about people who have tried this. I think they buy their rockets and a host of TRP's and place them in the opponents likely setup zone. If they were lucky and some of the rockets actually went where they wanted - major hurt. The downside they found was that if the rockets missed then they have no arty for when the opponent gets his revenge.

I always thought it a bit gamey but then what do I know.

[Panzer_Meyer]

I think I'll try it sometime, sounds like a good plan.

When CM2 comes buy the Russians will have masses of arty which will be hard to counter as the Germans. The Russian arty isn't to flexible but once it starts going the Germans are in a world of hurt.

[Pak40]

Well, I always play with one of the preset force restrictions (combined arms, infantry, mechanized, armor) and never with the unrestricted setting that could allow a person to buy such a rocket arsenal. What's the fun in playing someone like this? The rockets are shot and then the game is over. There's no strategy or tactics or any actual combat, sounds pretty lame to me.

[olandt]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pak40:

Well, I always play with one of the preset force restrictions (combined arms, infantry, mechanized, armor) and never with the unrestricted setting that could allow a person to buy such a rocket arsenal. What's the fun in playing someone like this? The rockets are shot and then the game is over. There's no strategy or tactics or any actual combat, sounds pretty lame to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I'ld have to agree with you, which is why I did this against the computer to see what sort of effect this type of barrage would have. As far as unrestricted vs the other go, unrestricted gives only a marginal increase in artillery allotment. In the test above I had 3000 points to spend on everything, 1050 of it which can be spent on artillery in unrestricted. Armor, CA and infantry allow 900 point of artillery which is still plenty enough for one heck of a barrage. It can be thought of as prep bombardment. On second thought I might use this versus an opponent, but only if I get to see the look on his face.

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by olandt:

What I want to know is, has anybody actually ever done that in a real game vs an opponent? Come on, fess up!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. Claymore did it to some guy in the latest AKOTM tournament.

[mensch]

Someone mention Rickets???

[New Age Santa]

the ULTIMATE in gameyness- rocket artillery bombardment followed by massive SMG rush

[KiwiJoe]

yep ive used rockets with quite a bit of success. They are a little bit hit and miss, rather like Jabos. Whats you do is buy 1-2 150mm rockets and area target about 2/3rds of the way into the map. They rip off all their rounds in 1 turn and with any luck do quite a bit of damage with thier high blast value. Ive taken out Jackons, M8 HMCs and quite a few infantry doing this. But you do run the risk of hitting nothing and thus wasting those few artillery points you get.

[Gremlin]

To help make up for the extremely wide spread pattern, you can have multiple rocket FO's target the same exact spot to increase the explosion density a bit.

[Gremlin]

I just ran a couple tests with 3 regular 300mm rocket spotters and one regular 150mm rocket spotter, using up the maximum allowable arty points for a combined-arms force in a 2000-point attack, Germans attacking. Both attacks used the default QB terrain types, with the first against a town, the second against a village. 32 casualties and 2 vehicles knocked out in the town, 32 casualties and no vehicles (but a number of one-story buildings destroyed) in the village. Two tests aren't close to conclusive, obviously, but it looks like using rockets in a preparatory barrage in those circumstances may not be worth much. A heavily wooded map might be another story--those 300mm treebursts are scary

Edit: ran the same test in an attack on a rural, heavily wooded area: 48 casualties, 2 vehicles KO'ed. In other words, little actual damage, but one heck of an impressive fireworks show. Ran that attack a second time with 10 150mm rocket FO's (again, the full arty points allotment): 47 casualties, one gun KO'ed.

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Gremlin ]

[Mr. Johnson--]

Are you attacking or defending Gremlin. Does it preform better when used on troops advancing or dug in defenders?

[Gen-x87H]

Never used it before. But I did play a ladder game against a person who did.

I was a moron for even agreeing to this game but I was in desperation to play

I was the defender.

I was in a town with little or no tree coverage. I have 3 companies of men + a couple extra platoons, a couple of 75 inf guns, a Pak 43, an a PZIV(70) I also had 2 batteries of 105s and 3 250\9s.

So I get into this map and I knew I was in for it. Flat map with wide open areas. So what happens? Well I put 2 platoons to the rear in a tree line with my Pak43. I took out a churchille and a Sherman 105. But he went ahead and opens up with 4 guns. I was ok until about turn 8. All of a sudden huge crators started appearing. Tehy eventually took out my Pak gun and routed 2 squads. Then it started reigning down on my town. In the first turn 4 buildings crumbled along with almost 2 platoons. The next turn I started fleeing from the town but he got anoth whole platoon as the whole town crumbled. After about 5 more turns it ceased and almost the whole town was leveled. About 17 buildings. I quickly ran in and defended with about 4 and half platoons left after the masacare.

I was a bit pissed because I should have had him agree to a fioons rule engagement. I ended up losing the battle due to all the guns and huge arty that came in. I asked him when the F\Bs were coming in but he said none of that, only naval guns LOL!

It was the only time I actually got pissed in a game because he went throuh a few maps before he got the perfectly flat map that allowed his guns and arty to just pummel me without recourse.

But hey live and learn

Gen

[Ellros]

What will happen with CM2 when someone playing as the Russians launches a massive rocket barrage followed by a human wave assault? You can't call it gamey then, since it did happen, quite a bit.

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Ellros ]

[Gremlin]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Are you attacking or defending Gremlin. Does it preform better when used on troops advancing or dug in defenders?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was attacking and targeted near the victory flags, since I knew the AI would bunch troops in those locations. Naturally, they did have the advantages of foxholes and buildings, but those blasts are so huge (particularly the 300mm ones) that I can't imagine foxholes would help much (?).

I'm sure the damage you could do would be increased on a small map and against troops advancing in the open or wooded areas toward you. Either way, accuracy with the rockets is so bad, it's a real gamble. Of course, you can buy tons of them on the cheap.

[olandt]

I tried this a few times on the attack against the computer. The major damage came on a gentle slopes village with little tree cover. I think the toll was high because the troops where huddle in the small areas of cover so that a single rocket would do mega damage. If you wanted to increase the effect, I think you might try to space out the hits slightly in time. Basically to route a few units with the initial volley and then wipe them out with a second volley when they're running.

As for attack versus defense, I would think the rockets would work better on attack. The delay on them is so large that unless your using trps as the defender, it will be difficult to time the strike. (I'm not saying it can't be done, just harder). In addition, the attacker has a MUCH greater number of possibilities on routes to the attack and setup. You can usually guess relatively closely where the defender will be setting up, and cloes does count with horseshoes and 300mm rocket barrages. The final advantage is in the points. The attacker gets a much larger credit towards artillery, and due to the randomness of the rockets, you need a large number to make up for the randomness. 25 300mm rockets may miss the good spots. 100 300mm rockets have a much greater chance of hitting and will devastate the epicenter with a fair amount of certainty.

And yeah, with CMBB, I assume we'll need to start getting use to this.

Gen-x87H : You must of been really desperate for a game if you let someone refuse maps multiple times. If the general orders you to defend that rediculous location, then you defend there. Gees, email me instead if you ever that needful of a game. And, uhh, no rockets...

[Gen-x87H]

Gen-x87H : You must of been really desperate for a game if you let someone refuse maps multiple times. If the general orders you to defend that rediculous location, then you defend there. Gees, email me instead if you ever that needful of a game. And, uhh, no rockets... "

Well I was just chilling in the chat room looking for a game. I just wanted to play. That was the first time anybody decided to do something like that. I took it like a soldier and fought as best I could but what can you do when you lose so much without barely hurting the enemy?

It was kind of cool when 3 buildings went up in 1 shot. A huge explosion occured. Too bad so did a whole platoon doh!

Gen