Juardis Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 If a tank loses a track, for whatever reason, will the main gun/turret still function properly? If it does still work, the crew will hang in there and fight it out unless it's clear they are going to die, right? (as opposed to running away like Sir Robin ). If the turret/gun doesn't work, why not? Losing a track should have no effect on firing the big gun. I did a search and didn't find the answer. I've read the manual (twice now) and didn't find the answer. Not to say it isn't out there, just that I didn't find it. ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: If a tank loses a track, for whatever reason, will the main gun/turret still function properly? If it does still work, the crew will hang in there and fight it out unless it's clear they are going to die, right? (as opposed to running away like Sir Robin ). If the turret/gun doesn't work, why not? Losing a track should have no effect on firing the big gun. I did a search and didn't find the answer. I've read the manual (twice now) and didn't find the answer. Not to say it isn't out there, just that I didn't find it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> a good question.. I wonder if I might also ask if a tank has one track knocked out or has thrown one track, should it not still be able to rotate, on the spot. I know that the crew bailing out is modeled as they don't want to stay there like sitting ducks in a tank that is about to get smoked, BUT if a elite heroic crew was in a good spot and have only lost a track I would like to see the tank immbollized BUT still able to rotate (using one good track) and still fire the main gun. BUT I'm not really sure if that is really realistic? just a thought.... -tom w ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: I know that the crew bailing out is modeled as they don't want to stay there like sitting ducks in a tank that is about to get smoked, BUT if a elite heroic crew was in a good spot and have only lost a track I would like to see the tank immbollized BUT still able to rotate (using one good track) and still fire the main gun.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> From what I have seen in the demo, the crew stays inside the tank and shoots if it is only immobilised. They only leave once it gets whacked. Then the result of the damage can be 'abandoned'. Anybody else seen it differently? Is my memory playing tricks on me again? ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzzle_brake Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 I have had main guns knocked out and they will stay with the tank and use machineguns until it looks like they are about to be overrun or destroyed and then bail out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 I once had a Sherman become immobolized in the mud of CE just seconds after the game began. From his location he went on to destroy 2 stugs and expend his entire HE load on German infantry on the ridge. So yes they are still lethal. ------------------ The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 If you are immobilized, you may continue to fight. IIRC from the demo, your men will bail from the tank if it's knocked out, or they may abandon the tank if thier morale indicated that it's best to be anywhere other than in that tank. I don't know for sure, but probably crew experience, tank condition (main gun operating? immobilized?) and type and volume of incoming fire all modeled and considered when determining if your tank crew stays in the tank or jumps ship. Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 In my experience with CM, crew experience makes the biggest difference. Mobility effectively enhances protection. Lack of mobility greatly reduces that protection (and the crews know it). Unless they are quite safe (hull down, defilade, etc), not many crews are going to stay in an immob'ed tank. Maybe that elite/heroic crew will...good luck in finding one of those Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 ...and one more thing... Most assault guns are non-turreted. This means that a blown track (or any other immobilization) SEVERELY restricts firing arc. Food for thought.. Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 I wish there was a way for crews to go back into an abandoned tank, if it isn't a wreck. Maybe even a different crew, if the original one is too frightened. It probably takes too much nerve to do a thing like that: "Look, they scared the crew out of their wits less than five minutes ago, I wonder why WE shouldn't go in there? The tank's still working, why not?" "I'm all for it." "Sure, what the heck I won't live much longer anyway." "Maybe the crew bailed out FOR A GOOD REASON, you fools." (crew leader) "Hey, it's a fine line between being a fool and being a hero." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rother Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 A tank with only one track can't rotate on it's own. It will drive straight if the trackless side is free to roll. I've done it countless times on M551s and M2s to change the track or pads. If you can manage to get the trackless side stuck or hungup somehow then it will rotate but only towards the trackless side. Rother <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: a good question.. I wonder if I might also ask if a tank has one track knocked out or has thrown one track, should it not still be able to rotate, on the spot. -tom w <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by patboivin: I wish there was a way for crews to go back into an abandoned tank, if it isn't a wreck. Maybe even a different crew, if the original one is too frightened. It probably takes too much nerve to do a thing like that: "Look, they scared the crew out of their wits less than five minutes ago, I wonder why WE shouldn't go in there? The tank's still working, why not?" "I'm all for it." "Sure, what the heck I won't live much longer anyway." "Maybe the crew bailed out FOR A GOOD REASON, you fools." (crew leader) "Hey, it's a fine line between being a fool and being a hero." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There is a nice story in Delaforce's book about the UK 7th Armoured in Normandy. During a follow-up battle after the Villers-Bocage desaster two Cromwells were guarding some point over night. The next morning the crew of one had a look at the other b/c it was so quiet. They found that the crew had simply left and buggered off to the rear. Morale was apparently a real problem in the 7th Armoured during the Normandy campaign. So they looted the tank (desert crews always had extra provisions, apparently) and drove it back to the rear, where they handed it back to the TC who bailed. When the guy had the nerve to inquire about the missing stuff he was told that some Panzergrenadiere are probably enjoying it for breakfast. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rother: A tank with only one track can't rotate on it's own. It will drive straight if the trackless side is free to roll. I've done it countless times on M551s and M2s to change the track or pads. If you can manage to get the trackless side stuck or hungup somehow then it will rotate but only towards the trackless side. Rother <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK.... Hi Rother Thanks for the input and experience, I had a few instances in the beta and Gold demo when I REALLY wanted one of those StuG's that had been immobolized to "just" pivot and rotate on the spot, and I was thinking "maybe" its one good track would/could pivot it toward the enemy, but after your post I must admit that Steve and Charles have had this issue correctly addressed from the begining and it is clear and simple that immobolized tanks just don't move at all or pivot or rotate, this is most certainly MORE realistic than my hair brained suggestion of pivoting on what I "assummed" might be one good track, figuring the other side would stay still, well D'oh, given half a thought I should have figured jsust like Rother said, the tank would of course roll forward, as the untracked side would be free to roll. Thanks for the post Rother... Now lets get back to the game... Fire away.. -tom w ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted June 23, 2000 Author Share Posted June 23, 2000 Thanks guys, I personally have only experienced abondonment when my tanks get immobilized. Can't recall the experience level of my crews though. Now, if your tank (turetted tank) gets immobilized because the engine was hit (instead of losing a track say), I'd expect the turret to be immobilized. Would you guys expect the same? I don't recall there being manual rotation of the turrets, but I may be wrong on this. ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 – possible spoiler- In V.O.T. when the Panther came on, I bombarded it with 105’s and immobilized it. The crew did not bail out but kept firing on any target that went by. I had two Sherman's crest the hill near by and started firing at it. About 5 shots ricocheted off the side turret in less than a minute when the crew decided to bail out (whew). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now, if your tank (turetted tank) gets immobilized because the engine was hit (instead of losing a track say), I'd expect the turret to be immobilized. Would you guys expect the same? I don't recall there being manual rotation of the turrets, but I may be wrong on this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, I wouldn't necessarily expect that. In most cases I would think that immobilization will occur because a track got knocked off or something happened to the running gear. If the engine got hit and resulted in a loss of electrical power THEN your situation might occur, but I bet the crew wouldn't be around to worry about it in that case ... even if the tank didn't brew up. Don't know for sure about manual rotation but I would be surprised if they didn't have something in place, mind you it would be dead slow. But then I'm no expert on it either. Joe ------------------ Compliments appreciated, Questions answered, Death Threats reciprocated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 All AFVs that I know of had/have turret rotation back up systems. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyPig Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 I got a question. Please I would like help on this. One of the biggest fustrations I have with Steel Panthers is when I force a crew to bail out of their tank or abandon their gun implacements it wont allow me to continue to pound the equipment. In that game you can bet the crews will attempt to re-man after they calm down. In VOT I had finally routed that gun crew in the south. But noticed that after they recovered their composier they made what appeared as an attempt to re-man the weapon. I tried with my sherman to target the gun to "PUT IT OUT" but it only allowed my to area target. Luckly I repinned the gun crew with a squad. Can you actually target abandoned equipment in CM to destroy it and prevent it being re-manned??? GreasyPig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted June 23, 2000 Share Posted June 23, 2000 Pig, Tanks and crew weapons can't be re-manned within a scenario. To prevent the enemy from salvaging it during an operation you have to hold the ground where it stands. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted June 24, 2000 Share Posted June 24, 2000 Just to add something on abandonment. I believe this only happens/mostly happens when the tank/bunker/ect.. is defenceless. Like if the gun in a bunker is damaged the crew will leave. Same with cannons and tanks I believe. If the crew loses their main weapon they will leave. I've had my cannon in VoT shelled with mortars.I didn't lose one man but the gun took some damage so it became adandoned. Rambling now... sorry. Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraut Posted June 24, 2000 Share Posted June 24, 2000 I know that if the tank is immobilized AND the main gun is gone, the crew will most likely bail. This happened in two games i played so far ... MK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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