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Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips

WHICH CPU TO UPGRADE TO?

Guest AussieJeff

By Guest AussieJeff
in Combat Mission Archive #2 (2000)

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Guest AussieJeff

Guest AussieJeff

Posted
Posted

Hi good people,

I'm on th' 'ol CPU trail..hehe - as I discovered some of you were back in 1999 (yes, I did a complete search on this!).

However, the options have expanded somewhat since then.

I have the following system which I use for CM as well as for video editing work (note the order of preference!):

Intel PIII 450 CPU

Intel SE BX440-2 100mhz M/B

250meg 100mhz RAM

Viper 770 TNT2-Ultra 32meg video card

8gig Quantum Fireball H/D

20gig WD H/D (for video storage)

Windows 98 OS

My questions are:

(1) What is the fastest/best CPU that I can

expect to slot into the existing M/B as

far as CM's FPU crunching is concerned?

And what sort of improvement in speed

could I expect to see with the CPU you

recommend?

(2) If you think the SE BX440-2 M/B is not

up to par, should I look at an AMD

setup instead? (I have seen a lot of

posts recommending 500-600 AMD's, but

presumably that would require getting a

new M/B as well. Would that affect my

video editing capability as well)?

(3) My hunch up to now is that a PIII 800

would slot straight in and provide a

reasonable boost in video and CM

processing speed with no other changes

required.

Any ideas or recommendations you can come up with would be greatly appreciated!! smile.gif

Xmas Cheers,

smile.gif

AussieJeff

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Tanaka Senior Member

Tanaka

Posted
Posted

Hi

1) and 3) go here to know the answer http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/se440bx2/procsupp.htm

2) Yes you will need another MB...

In my opinion, If you are a lucky one with the serial nº of your SE BX440-2 MB (I wasn't), then I would recommend you just to upgrade the CPU, a PIII 850 will do. Notice that you will only have a 30 to 40% increase of speed on your system, but you should be able to find a cheap PIII 850Mhz

If you are unlucky, then you could try AMD or/and a new 133mhz board...

Joust some ideas wink.gif

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Samhain Senior Member

Samhain

Posted
Posted

Here's a related question for any hardware gurus, since I'm going to be upgrading my proc and mobo relatively soon. I have PC100 memory right now. If the new mobo supports PC133, does that mean I needPC133, or can I still use the PC100 I have? TIA

------------------

I rode a tank, held a general's rank

When the blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank.

--Rolling Stones

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Lee Senior Member

Lee

Posted
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Jeff: I'd go with a new MB and an Athlon 1000 mghz, they just cut prices

recently on them. You can get an OEM (not a retail box, plain box like

they are shipped to businesses in volume, warranty through the company

you buy from) Athlon 1000 mghz for about $200. And 133 mghz ram

is cheap and fast. You'll love the speed increase in CM, these Athlons

tear through 3D graphics very effectively. smile.gif Let us know what you get.

Sam: You can use 100 ram just fine in a board that supports 133. smile.gif

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rwcanuck Senior Member

rwcanuck

Posted
Posted

I just upgraded my PII 300 computer with a Asus PL297 motherboard with a Celeron 466 processor and it works great! I can now play the large scenarios with little lag.

Always check the site of your Motherboard for the latest bios and what procssors can be used...in my case the Asus site told me everything I needed to know to upgrade my computer smile.gif

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Guest wwb_99

Guest wwb_99

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I would replace your processor with a P3 850. That is platy of power (for now) and reinstalling a motherboard is a job and a half. You might as well hold off until you want to completely redo the system. Right now is a bad time to buy an Athalon motherboard; none are yet availiable that support DDRAM. And DDRAM makes a world of difference. I'd pop in a P3 850 or so now and wait a year to do a major upgrade.

WWB

------------------

Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say,

Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus.

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Guest AussieJeff

Guest AussieJeff

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the link, Tanaka!!

Unfortunately, the following FAQ from Intel's site doesn't look good for overclocking ideas regarding the SE440BX-2!!!

"Why can't I find speed settings in my BIOS configuration mode?"

Ans: The processor speed option previously available in configuration mode is not displayed with newer Intel® processors, and will not effect the processor speed. Newer Intel processors boot with the ratio preset and tested during manufacturing.

Damn frown.gif

However, I'll check the M/B for serial no. - hopefully it will take a PIII 850.. I'll let you know soon...

Jeff

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Mark IV Senior Member

Mark IV

Posted
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I just had a salesperson tell me that Athlon would have major issues running AutoCAD 2000, and that I really need to get the P3 or 4 if I need both 3D gaming and CAD (which I do).

This smells of BS and I'd welcome an informed opinion on Athlon & CAD. I'm looking for a whole new rig, so no motherboard constraints.

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cp Junior Member

cp

Posted
Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV:

I just had a salesperson tell me that Athlon would have major issues running AutoCAD 2000, and that I really need to get the P3 or 4 if I need both 3D gaming and CAD (which I do).

This smells of BS and I'd welcome an informed opinion on Athlon & CAD. I'm looking for a whole new rig, so no motherboard constraints.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recently bought a P3 myself, but I looked strongly at Xi's Athlon systems. Xi's target market is AutoCAD users, they always seems to score big in the reviews, and they're usually the fastest system in the review group.

Check out this month's Cadalyst; in that review, the Athlon is at least equivalent to the P3 (single processor running Windows 2000), and isn't at a huge disadvantage to the P4.

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Mark IV Senior Member

Mark IV

Posted
Posted

CompUSA just had an HP package on a P4 rig for about $1700 less monitor (1.4GHz with CDRW, the whole bit). I'll probably pass but it's tempting to see them getting into range...

Hey, thanks for the heads-up on the cadalyst reference. Among other things, it mentions: "the increasing viability of Athlon-based systems as a performance platform for CAD users. The Athlon Thunderbird processors are readily available, moderately priced, and as can be seen from the test scores here, able to hold their own quite well against Intel processors with higher clock rates."

So it WAS BS.

This article really praised the "somewhat pricey FGL Graphics FireGL 2 that accounts for approximately a third of the cost of the system." OK, graphics snobs... what's the deal with this one?

[This message has been edited by Mark IV (edited 12-26-2000).]

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cp Junior Member

cp

Posted
Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV:

This article really praised the "somewhat pricey FGL Graphics FireGL 2 that accounts for approximately a third of the cost of the system." OK, graphics snobs... what's the deal with this one?

[This message has been edited by Mark IV (edited 12-26-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't cite a specific reference, but I'm certain I've seen the GeForce2 GTS mentioned in at least one of the trade magazines as a good alternative to the high-end CAD graphics cards.

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Lee Senior Member

Lee

Posted
Posted

Athlons will run AutoCAD just fine. That salesman has no idea what

he's talking about. Aside from a few benchmarks and specific

applications the Athlon is superior to the PIV. If you want to wait

a little bit, you can get one of the new DDR ram boards coming out

for the Athlon. If you want to buy right now, just get an Asus

Athlon board, some pc133, an Athlon 1000 mghz and you'll be all set. smile.gif

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Schrullenhaft Senior Member

Schrullenhaft

Posted
Posted

PC100 memory will work in a PC133 motherboard. However you can't run at 133Mhz for the Front Side Bus frequency (FSB). Your CPU will need to be using a 100Mhz FSB to work with your current RAM. So if you purchase a CPU based on 133Mhz FSB (i.e.- an Intel PIII 733EB - 5.5 X 133), you will have to run it much slower (i.e. - 5.5 X 100 = 550Mhz).

That being said... there is a possibility that your current PC100 memory may not work with a new motherboard since some of them can be quite picky. If you're going to have a vendor perform the upgrade for you, then you could have them check out your memory to see if it will work with the motherboard you intend to get. If you're performing the upgrade yourself you may want to check around on the 'Net to find out what user's experiences are with the particular model.

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Vanir Senior Member

Vanir

Posted
Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee:

Jarmo, you are wrong on that. PC 100 will work in a board that supports PC133.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, probably. Most name brand PC100 will run fine at 133 IIRC, but success is not 100% guaranteed. Anytime you run a system component at higher frequencies than recommended (overclocking) there is a chance of failure, especially if he has generic memory.

BTW, Aussie, I also have a 440BX MOBO with a PIII 500 CPU, and I'm probably going to get a Slot 1 850 CPU in about 6 months to upgrade. They should be dirt cheap by then. I will probably grab a NV20 graphics card as well.

------------------

You mean my Java coded Real Time Bar Fight Simulator Madmatt Mission: Beyond BiteMe ISN'T going to be published?!?

Madmatt

[This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 12-26-2000).]

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Dogface Senior Member

Dogface

Posted
Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Samhain:

Here's a related question for any hardware gurus, since I'm going to be upgrading my proc and mobo relatively soon. I have PC100 memory right now. If the new mobo supports PC133, does that mean I needPC133, or can I still use the PC100 I have? TIA

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey ive got a ASUS P3V133 motherboard running a P3 533 w/ PC100 ram and it runs fine bolth at 133 MgHz FBS and 100 MgHz Ram

so i dont know it mostly depends on the chipset that lets your CPU talk to the mem.

------------------

Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. --Gen. Patton

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Wolfe Senior Member

Wolfe

Posted
Posted

Well, ignoring overclocking, whether you can run PC100 mem in a board while using a 133MHz FSB depends on the chipset.

Intel chipsets:

* 440BX: mem only runs at FSB

* 440EX: mem only runs at FSB

* 440ZX: mem only runs at FSB

* 810: memory always runs at 100MHz

* 820: SDRAM support was removed because of instability, but mem always ran at 100MHz

* 840: same as 820

* 815: PC100 can run at 100MHz with a 66, 100, or 133MHz FSB. PC133 can run at 133MHz only with a 133MHz FSB.

VIA chipsets:

* Apollo Pro+ (693): Mem runs at FSB or AGP (66MHz) speed

* Apollo Pro133 (693A): Mem can be run at almost any speed in any combination of 66/100/133MHz FSB. Though this may vary from board to board depending on its implementation by different manufacturers.

* Apollo Pro133A (694X): same as Pro133

* PM601 (integrated Trident AGP): same as Pro133

* PM133 (integrated Savage AGP): same as Pro133

* KX133: mem runs at 100 or 133MHz with a 100MHz FSB

* KT133: same as KX133

* KT133A: Dunno yet. Supports 133MHz FSB, and probably allows you to run at PC100 while using a 133MHz FSB.

AMD chipsets:

* 750: mem runs at FSB speed

* 760: DDR mem runs at FSB speed.

- Chris

[This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 12-26-2000).]

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Tris Senior Member

Tris

Posted
Posted

I've got a similar question as Aussie Jeff regarding upgrading. Currently my system is

ASUS MB w/ Intel 440 BX Chipset

PIII 450

Viper 770 Ultra 32mb

I'm looking to upgrade to

PIII 800-850

Annihiliator 2 Ultra AGP

Will my MB be able to handle these?

Not sure about the processors, though I believe that your MB will acomodate those CPU's. But that's not what worries me.

The Intel 440BX AGPset was no good with USB internally-powered hubs in mind (for instance, if your monitor serves as a hub you're out of luck), and if you're talking an ASUS P2B-F MB it's only AGP x2 so what's the point of keeping that with a great x4 card like the Annhilalator? The last thing you want to do is create any more video memory bottlenecks for the GeForce cards--that's their only real drawback now.

This is not an especially good time to be upgrading; since the system you have is plenty powerful enough to run anything CMBO has to offer don't be hasty. The huge scenarios will process somewhat slowly, true, but your TNT2 card's a honey (Diamond was the best) and can push even all hi-res .BMP's at a fairly high screen resolution. I'd advise you to wait until the good AMD boards get into circulation, then decide whether you even want to stick with an Intel chip to begin with. Your best bang is from AMD, and it isn't even close if you want to know. (For what it's worth, I own a PIII 450 the same as you so it's not as if I'm just claiming "mine's" the best. Check out Tom's Hardware for an ongoing discussion of all things Intel vis-a-vis AMD.) Even if you do go with an Intel CPU the prices will be lower come March or April all across the board, to include that video card upgrade you have in mind, as the new nVidia chip generation should be out by then, so again, don't be antsy.

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Vanir Senior Member

Vanir

Posted
Posted

Well, I just saw on Sharkyexteme's site were Intel is coming out with a PIII 1Ghz at 100 Mhz FSB. If my Bios supports it I may get that instead of the 850.

------------------

You mean my Java coded Real Time Bar Fight Simulator Madmatt Mission: Beyond BiteMe ISN'T going to be published?!?

Madmatt

[This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 12-27-2000).]

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