sttp Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 No time to test, as turn is imminent.... For spotting rounds to be useful and "valid", does the artillery spotter need to be able to see the impact area on the ground? Or is being able to see the explosion plume enough? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Good question. I've never really tested that specifically. It has seemed to me while playing that rounds get adjusted regardless, unless the spotting round falls off the edge of the world. Then bad things tend to happen (like you hear the FFE but never see it). In real life, you would estimate from the plume (say it fell behind some woods or a hill). That might not be as accurate as actually seeing exactly where the round impacted, but since initial adjustments are usually on the order of L/R 200 or even 400, and add/drop 200 or even 400, it will be close enough that the next round should be in the ballpark and readily observable. But that's real life   Adjusting fire is bracketing the target, so it's almost never an exact adjustment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thilio Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, sttp said: For spotting rounds to be useful and "valid", does the artillery spotter need to be able to see the impact area on the ground? Or is being able to see the explosion plume enough?  I don’t know if there’s a difference between the impact on the ground and the plume. But in my experience (setting iron) if the observer does not see the spotting round the strike does not occur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I've found myself trapped in a cycle of spotting round... spotting round... spotting round... out of sight of the FO. I've had to scamper him into a better position to spot the impact to get the mission to commence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sttp Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 Well, the results are completely ambiguous and unhelpful. Fire for Effect did arrive, but it seemed slower and less accurate than it should have been for a +1 forward observer in that fantastic position. It's CMFI's End of the Line, and he was up on that 4-story tower on the hill overlooking the entire battlefield. My gut tells me the arty spotter needs to see the impact point, which would make it sorta parallel to how you can't target a building unless you can see its base, but I have no idea. Just my gut... It might be fun to test... along with the 37 other things on my "To Be Tested In the Editor" list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I found depends on the scenario. Battle for Normandy, scenario Loamshires I found the Mortar FO way of target each and every time. Even when he spots from 200 meters away. It appears that the designer wants the player to use TRPs only. As an FO the FO is useless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEB14 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 14 hours ago, chuckdyke said: I found depends on the scenario. Battle for Normandy, scenario Loamshires I found the Mortar FO way of target each and every time. Even when he spots from 200 meters away. It appears that the designer wants the player to use TRPs only. As an FO the FO is useless. Not sure what you mean. How may the designer have any influence on the FO spotting performance (apart from leadership and training level settings)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 16 hours ago, sttp said: My gut tells me the arty spotter needs to see the impact point, A caller can call artillery slightly out side their LOS - over a hill for example. So, no they do not need to see the ground impact. They do have to see something so your original suggestion of see the explosion effects are likely true. My guess is its more of an abstraction than actually see the displaced ground in the air. However if the spotting round falls too far away or behind other obstructions then additional spotting rounds will be called in. As per what @Ultradave is talking about. This is why if your FO has crappy key holed visibility it will take longer for FFE because the have to wait for something to land where they can see it to give direction. As per @MikeyD My experience makes it seem pretty reasonable overall. If your FO has great visibility the spotting to FFE proceeds quickly and smoothly. If your FO has poor or spotty visibility it takes longer. If your FO has really bad or no visibility then it can even never resolve. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 My worst spotting experience came in the first mission of the "Amiens Tonight" campaign. Every spotting round landed in the woods behind my FO. In the end I had to give up and cancel it, in case the FO and the infantry nearby got taken out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 If the wind is blowing things get worse. Pay attention to which direction the grass is waving. Though trying to compensate by plotting my mission 'upwind' rarely gets the desired results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 8 hours ago, PEB14 said: Not sure what you mean. How may the designer have any influence on the FO spotting performance (apart from leadership and training level settings)? I honestly don't know why the FO in that scenario can't function as a spotter like in other scenarios except green Soviet green spotters in RT. He is restricted in my opinion to the RTS in the scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEB14 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 9 hours ago, chuckdyke said: I honestly don't know why the FO in that scenario can't function as a spotter like in other scenarios except green Soviet green spotters in RT. He is restricted in my opinion to the RTS in the scenario. In fact there is no mean in the scenario editor to "restrict" a FO... Maybe has the specific FO very poor stats (low leadership, low morale, low trainng)? By the way, I have no idea of the influence of these parameters regarding a FO behaviour and performance... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEB14 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 13 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said: My worst spotting experience came in the first mission of the "Amiens Tonight" campaign. Every spotting round landed in the woods behind my FO. In the end I had to give up and cancel it, in case the FO and the infantry nearby got taken out. I had even worst spotting experience (and I'm probably not the only one). In at least one mission of the "Scottish Corridor" campaign, after neverending turns of spotting, the spotter finally FFEed in a location which had absolutely NOTHING to do with the area initially requested... At least he didn't fire on friendly troops! CMBN terrain is generally very unfavorable for FOs (poor and short line of sights). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 -2 Leadership Otherwise a regular FO. We could blame the leadership-2 as a plausible explanation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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