Army? Navy? Marines? Help from ex-servicemen needed!

[Minnesota Joe]

Yeah I know this is off topic of CM in general, but ive realised that I need som advice from what seems to be a large amount of ex-servicemen on this board.

Im entering my senior year in HS and my parents arent rich and I dont get straight A's and I'm not a star athlete so I'm not going to any state college/university like I had previously wished. I have good enough grades to get into the local state university, but with my sister entering college in a few weeks, well, I'm not spoiled and I know how much college is, especially for 2 kids simultaniously. I also have no idea what i'm going to major in if I were to go to college.

My alternative is either vocational school, community college, or the military. I've spoken with recruiters from all branches (save the coastguard) and ruled out the Airforce for my own reasons. If I were to enter a service, I'd probably stay in for the full 20 years (if not more) and by then have a (free) college degree to pursue a new civilian career at the age of 38.

My two "best" choices are now the Navy and the Army. Heres how I compare them each:

Army+ : most "adventurous". I love the outdoors and am a good marksmen (I have 2 rifles for hunting). I can take crap from people if I have to. The propaganda has worked on me, though I am by no means a simple or easily persuaded person, especially not by T.V. ads.

Army- : probably the most dangerous service branch to be in, especially in wartime. Advancement to officer status is more difficult than in the Navy (or so I've heard). Not as much traveling, though If sent to Germany it'd be okay because I consider it my second homeland (Ich spreche gut Deutsch und alle).

Navy+ : easier than army. less chance of getting killed. Get to travel the world and all that.

Navy- : not as adventurous. I am not really fond of sailing for months at a time.

And marines in my opinion are kinda crazy. Plus I do not know if I am physically able to become a successful Marine. I weigh only 145 pounds and am about 5'9" tall.

Personally, I want to be in the Army most and in particular, a tanker and maybe SpecOps. Is this a good choice? I need some "professional" opinions.

Thanks in advance!

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Ah scheist.

[Formerly Babra]

I once saw a Centurion blissfully and safely in the centre of a convoy take a hit from an ATGM fired from a helicopter located God knows where. It burned all night.

Still wanna be in tanks?

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It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE.

[Mark IV]

Check http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/005731.html

I think the comments may be helpful, if not directly comparative of Army and Navy.

And hey, the tank might have burned all night, but the crew didn't...

[Sgt.Rock]

If it is money for college you are looking for, you might try looking into the Reserves or Guard. If you don't like it then you can always go active. As for your size that was about how big I was when I went into the Corps. (put on 20 lbs. in boot) But all branches offer the same funds for college.

[Wayne]

Have you talked to your counselors at school about government loans, grants etc. As long as your parents don't have a lot of money and property, you should be elligible for some kind of assistance. You may think it is charity but the money is allocated for this purpose and you're as good as anybody else so find out if something along that line is available before commiting yourself to military service. If you go in to the military you're in there for a given time and there's no backing out. If you want to be in the military then, go ahead, but think real hard about what you are going to do.

Good luck in whatever your heart tells you to do.

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Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight.

[Colin]

Good luck.

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And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh.

-Steve

My website!

[DEF BUNGIS]

If you join the Army, make sure you come in as a 13F (fire support specialist).

If I had to do it all over again, that is what I would be. It's the best MOS in the Army...IMO.

Another MOS that IMO is very, very, good is

14S (Stinger operator). Very fun, very hooah!

Dont be ANY type of mechanic!

As for the Navy, well I don't want to offend anyone here, so I will keep that to myself.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[gashford]

I should not worry too much about the physical side of things, I saw guys carrying their own body weight in the RM, it was more a mental thing than a physical one.

But think real hard before joining up for money reasons, after all you could get killed for it, or see the friends you make killed over it.

Check with your local authorities as you can get grants and money, as suggested before. Also don't forget the civilian authorities - Police, Ambulance, Fire Service - these may be run different in the US than in ENgland so I am not sure how relevant they may be. Mind you if the films we see here in the UK are anything to go by, being a Covert Ops guy a million miles behind enemy lines might be more favourable than being a cop, they must have nerves of steel to deal with the drive bys, gang shootings, not to mention aliens, predators, volcano and the huge amount of 'ex navy seals turned fugitive', that are out there. =)

Most of all good luck, I enjoyed my time in the forces, and still can bore most of my friends with stories, although I am starting to repeat some now but it took ten years!

[Frenchy]

Marines are crazy...!? Naw, just extremely dedicated. They haven't conformed to the politically correct way to train troops in boot camp (sensitivity training, etc...). They train them to the job they are supposed to do..."to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States..."

Don't worry about your weight...I weighed less than that getting out of Parris Island at graduation. Best shape I have been in!

Semper Fi!

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Webmaster

http://www.trailblazersww2.org

http://www.vmfa251.org

[Blackhorse]

Hello Minnesota Joe.

First thing to do is go here www.goarmy.com

You can't go wrong with the Army. Here are a few of the incentives we offer. What's interesting is now you can get all the incentives, not just one.

1. $50,000 for college

2. Up to $20,000 sign-up bonus

3. Repay up to $65,000 in student loans

4. 75% tuition assistance while you are in, so you can start working on that degree for when you retire. Each installation has an education center where college courses are taught.

5. PAYS (PArtnership for Youth Success is a new program where you enlist and are guaranteed a job with industry after your enlisment is up. Companies include General Dynamics, Pepsi and additional ones signing on this month. There will be quite a few once PAYS is fully implemented.

6. Station of choice. Depending on when you sign up, you get to choose your first duty assignment.

And quite a few more that your local recruiter can explain to you.

The Army also offers a program called CONAP which stands for Concurrent Appointment. This is similar to PAYS but instead applies to colleges. In this program, you are guaranteed admission to a college after your enlistment ends. There are many colleges involved with this program, and quite a few soldiers whoi had borderline grades have gotten into good colleges through this program. Again, ask your local recruiter for details.

Having listed the recruiting incentives let me now tell you a little about the Army.

First of all, it is a great way of life. I've been in the Army for over 14 years and love it just as much as I loved it on day #1. The Army is fun, exciting, and rewarding.

In the Army you'll get the chance to work with some of the highest quality, most professional people you will ever meet. You will develop lifelong frienships with some truly incredible people, and you will know what it is like to be part of a great team.

Honor, integrity, loyalty and comraderie are all words that fully describe life in the Army. You will be serving to defend the wonderful people of this great nation. It just doesn't get any better than that.

You will get a chance to see the world as well as the United States. Travel is a by-product of service in the Army (I have travelled all over Europe as a tourist and have been able to visit almost every state).

Armor as a branch is great. It is called the Combat Arm of Decision, and it's called that because Armor tends to add the decisive effect on the battlefield.

If you go Armor, you will be trained at Fort Knox, KY and could be stationed at almost any Army post after you complete training.

In Armor you will become part of a very tight-knit team called your tank crew. As the new guy on a tank you will start off as loader and progress to driver, then gunner, and finally tank commander. After you are a tank commander, you will become a platoon-sergeant (the top non-commissioned officer in a platoon of 4 tanks), and then First Sergeant (the top non-commissioned officer in a company of 14 tanks). After First Sergeant, you can become a Sergeant Major. This is the highest rank a non-commissioned officer can achieve. This will most likely bring you to the 25 year mark in your career, with you being able to go to 35 years of service at the rank of Sergeant Major.

Be a member of one of the greatest organizations in the world. Be a vital link in the defense of our great nation. Be all you can be.

[Airborne]

When I was in HS there was no way I was going to college. Fortunately, I took advantage of and qualified for Army college benefits. After 4 years in the Army jumping out of planes and killing tanks, I was ready for college. I have absolutely no regrets about joining the Army (I went in at 17) and oftentimes regret not putting more time in.

I was really into military history, war games and such, and knew I wanted to go into a combat arms MOS.. I wanted 11H (infantryman) in the 82nd Abn Division. The day I signed up, there weren't any positions available so I took 11H (Heavy Anti Armor Weapons Crewman -TOW) I got a 4000 dollar bonus just for choosing that MOS and an additional 6000 for college. The enlistment bonus' and college aid are much higer these days--I was in 81-85....

As for the physical requirements--I went into the Ft. Benning infantry/jump school weighing in at 129 pounds and approximately 16 weeks later weighed 145...Best of luck.....Chris

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Land Soft--Kill Quiet

[fd ski]

4 years in the navy here.. same reasons.

Here is my advice:

Go to your local community college for 2 years. Most of the credits will be transferable to the state university - just make sure you find out beforehand which....

Do that for two years, maybe three. Then transfer for last year to the "respectable" school - one year's tution shouldb't be a proiblem - take every fricking student loan you can get your hands on. After 4 years, voula - you have a degree from "respectable" university.

4 ( or 20 for that matter ) years of your life are not worth wasting just to pay for school. Look into alternate programs - ROTC, reserves.. so on..

Going on active duty for 4 years just to pay for school is not the best way of dealing with this particular problems.

One thing that nobody mentioned. If you hope to have a good and heathy family one day, military is surely one of the worst enviroments you could pick. I'm not saying that military families are bad - it's just the deployments and hours that you work that make it tough.

One thing i would suggest thou, bring your grades up.

If there is one thing that military will teach you, it's an apriciation for education.

My GPA in HS was something like 2.2 ( not that i spoke any english then ). Now, after two years of college ( University of Connecticut ) my GPA is 3.98.

And it will stay there.

Miliary showed me how low i can go by being an ignorat ass

Just my point of view.. your milage may vary.

[IntelWeenie]

I'll give you the same advice I've given my little brother about joining the armed forces: Keep your mind and eyes open. Decide what you want to do and make the recruiter give it to you. You are under no obligation to join and (as should be obvious by the advertised benefits) qualified recruits are at a premium these days. When I joined way back in '85 (17, still in HS) the words I most dreaded hearing from the recruiter were "needs of the Army" (meaning they put you where they want to). I originally wanted to get into helicopters but my eyesight wasn't up to it. I ended up going into the Intelligence field instead and had more fun doing that than I could have imagined.

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"Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb

[gashford]

I hope that this doesn't go down like lead ballon, and I don't want to scare our friend at all.

I served for only 2.5 years in the Royal Marines and did not see active duty, the Gulf came and went and we didn't get to go.

One consideration that I think ought to be weighed up above all the grant offers, hohaah (or however you spell it), bravado and friendships that you will undoubtably form in any armed force is to consider why you are there.

In the armed forces you are taught to kill other human beings, whether in defence of your country, ideal or whatever, you may well be called upon to take the life of another human. Now that may not go down well with some people, but it is an honest consideration that must be thoroughly thought through, I believe before joining up.

When the Gulf broke out the colour of some people I knew went from healthy to very pale and phrases like, 'I joint to learn a trade not kill or die', where heard from quite a few earlier brave souls. Friends of mine where sent to various hot spots about the world and saw active duty, some stayed a couple left after they realised what they had really gotten into after the Recruiting Office movies and talks of comradeship, great skills, member of elite forces etc.... and had actually taken life.

Please take what I am saying in the light it is given, I am not saying the forces are a bad thing, they are a necersary part of modern life (unfortunatly) and don't forget that these words are coming from an ex service member in for the 22 but medically discharged after 2.5.

Just think it through carefully, it could save you trouble in the future, if you decide to join up best of luck, if you don't best of luck.

I know I sound like an old grandad warning his grandson not to pull the pot handles on the stove, just think it through, which you are obviously doing because you have written and asked, so all credit to you for that.

(Don't flame me to bad). =)

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Army+ : most "adventurous". I love the outdoors and am a good marksmen (I have 2 rifles for hunting).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Think your a good marksman? Join the marines and try for Sniper school.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Navy+ : easier than army.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me guess... the recruiter told you that... ROFL

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And marines in my opinion are kinda crazy. Plus I do not know if I am physically able to become a successful Marine. I weigh only 145 pounds and am about 5'9" tall.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Crazy? We're not crazy It ain't about physical toughness. I'm smaller than you. Its mental toughness. I had a buddy that was in the 82nd before joining my beloved Corps, so he went through both bootcamps. He said Army bootcamp was physically tougher, but didn't even come close to Marine bootcamp for mental stress. If you can't handle what they dish out, you can't handle being shot at.

[MadDog0606]

I disliked a majority of my time in the Navy. Just because you can take crap from people doesn't mean your going to like it for 4 to 6 years. And believe me there are people in the Navy that are MASTER CRAP GIVERS. You can't quit if you get pissed off. And like fd ski wrote in a previous post if you get married or are married and you join the Navy, unless you get a shore billet for the whole time your in your family life will suffer. Unless of course you have a very very loving and understanding wife/husband then it will only suffer a little.

If I had a second chance I would have looked into ways to have gotten some kind of grants and/or low interest loans to go to college. I did this after I got out of the Navy. I should have done it before getting out of HS.

I will give the Navy this though. It taught me responsibility and how to have a good time in far away lands.

Now if you don't listen to my advice, and why should you, and you still want to join at least listen to the following advice. BE SURE YOU DO NOT GET SCREWED BY THE RECRUITER. By this I mean that if you tell the recruiter you want to be a certain rate (job in the Navy) and he tells you "Sorry, your enterance scores aren't high enough", DO NOT take that statement as fact. You better verify the score and the score needed for the rating you want. I tell you this from experience. I wanted to be a missile tech but the Navy Recruiter said my score was to low and would Radar Operator be okay? I was a young and trusting lad back in those days and I said OK. Latter when I got on my first ship I found out my scores were more then high enough for me to be a missile tech, the Navy just needed radar operators that month!!!! If I could have found that recruiter I would have not have been very nice to him. But then again he saved me from an extra year in the Navy. But I got over it and learned not to be such a trusting individual again.

[Minnesota Joe]

Thanks for the great feedback everybody! I have been kinda worried about getting screwed by the recruiters (they get some kind of recruiting bonus, dont they?). My mom would like for me to join the navy becuase she doesnt want me getting killed or anything. However, after what I've read here, it looks as though the Army is the way to go. I still have 1 full school year left to go and hopefully I can make up my mind enough so I am truly confident in my choice.

Thank you all!

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Ah scheist.

[Shep]

I thought I'd weigh in here, too. I have a little insight because I was in two branches of service, the Marines and the Army - Infantry and Cavalry Scout. I loved the Marines for the esprit de corps, and the training I received there was much more challenging than the Army. However, the training and the job for 19D Cavalry Scout was a very enjoyable thing, and I'd do it all over again.

I also have the perspective of staying in touch with a lot of young people who are presently serving the first few years of their respective tours. Let me just say...

don't go Navy.

If what you're looking for is challenge and personal growth in mental toughness, then the Marines are for you. However, the Army has some great jobs that are a ton of fun.

But whatever you do... join. It is very important for our country that young men like you serve and perpetuate our freedom. We depend very much on your generation. Major Carnes mentioned the tons of benefits that are available for those who are willing to serve. But let me emphasize one that is SO IMPORTANT: the benefit to all of us because of your willingness and dedication.

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Scouts Out!

[Lebo]

The best and worst times of my life were in the Army. As were encounters with the best and worst people I have known. I do not regret my service for a second although it nearly cost me my family life.

It sounds as if you are wisely keeping your eyes open and fully considering your options. If I may offer you one bit of advice of a different nature: after you have made your choice, whatever it is and however it turns out, be sure to maintain a positive attitude and outlook. Don't allow others with poor attitudes to bring you down or affect your work. If you can remain enthusiastic in spite of all obstacles I'm sure you will be happy and successful in your endeavors. Good luck!

[Chris Jenkins]

I agree with Lebo. The best and worst people in your life will be in the Army. It is a world of extremes. Parades and mudholes, parties and rainstorms.

Go Military Intelligence, the bonus money is the best, as are the people and working conditions. There are also tracks to Warrant Officer. Promotions are FAST. If you are thinking about 20 years and a degree, MI is the way to go. The training can count towards your degree, and you'll have time (garrison time) to get one. Ask your recruiter about MOS 97B.

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"Rinky dinky stinky thinky"

[GI Tom]

Wow. Lots of anti Navy folks here. Well, let me tell you, if you would like a bit of a challenge, and would like some combat training as well, you can still join the Navy.

Navy Seabees.

I am glad that I was in the Navy. I was taught most of what I needed to know at a very early age. This included discipline, peronal acheivement, etc. etc. (Joined when I was 17, 4 days after graduating H.S.). I was originally in the fleet as an Engineman, then I went into the Seabees. Hoorah.

Either way, whatever service you join if you elect to, it's not what you think it is right now. You have to experience it to understand it. That is my opinion anyway.

Furthermore, if you do join, good luck to you. It's a decision you'll want to think long and thoughtfully on. Do not worry about your weight. They have ways of making you grow. I weighed 130 lbs when I went to boot camp, weighed 143 when done with boot camp and after my first 6 month cruise to the Med, I was 161. Being in shape is the most important thing.

Again, either way, good luck.

GI Tom

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To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of wierd sandwich.

[Skoonj]

I almost hate to give a conflicting view, but I will. There are many well considered messages of advice, and you can accept them all.

I served eight years as an officer on active duty in the US Air Force. After that I did 15 years as an officer in the Air National Guard. I left active duty as a captain, and finished in the Guard as a lieutenant colonel.

I was a scope dope at a radar site in the Ryukyu Islands (Miyako Jima), went to navigator school (had an eye problem that kept me from pilot school), became an F-4 weapon systens officer, and later an instructor navigator in C-141s. In the ANG I was an F-4 WSO for 10 years, and then public affairs officer for three.

After all this experience you might expect sage advice on choosing a path through the military puzzle. All I can say is that if I were to start out again today, knowing what I do now, I would not join the Air Force or any other service. The pay is low, the hours are long, whether you learn useful skills for civilian life is an accident, you have to take crap from above as long as you stay.

What's more, society has changed. Military duty now is not a requirement as it was in 1970 when I joined. My draft number was 189, and it was likely I would have been drafted. I stayed in school so when I joined I could be an officer. You do not have the pressure of a draft. Not only is military service not required, it is a drag on your civilian career. You lose from civilian advancement every year you stay in the military.

Today you don't even have bosses and co-workers who will respect your service to your country. They will have contempt for you wasting your time in the service when you could have been networking in business, building a career.

I suggest you go directly to college, then get into the business world. Today military service is for the clueless who don't realize how it effects their civilian prospects, for careerists, and for the self centered who want to do it because they feel it would be a fun fling before getting on with your life.

Have I struck some raw nerves here? Probably, but at my age I don't mind serving as flame bait. And by the way, I didn't say I don't respect those who serve. I do. But that is not something generally shared by the civilian population. That includes those who rise to the top. Need I mention Bill Clinton?

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Skoonj

Excelsior, Fathead!

--Jean Shepherd, circa 1956

[BloodRed]

I've heard it over and over, if you're going to join a service, go AF! I listened to it, and I'm about to re-up for 6 more years. We get excellent tech training, great quality of life, etc. You aren't going to live in a tent with 50 other people, you'll get a room to yourself. AF life is good, and that's coming from someone who knows.

-BR

[Abrams Wannabe]

I would encourage you to reconsider the Coast Guard, especially if you're

seriously considering going into the Navy. If you love the sea, want to learn

seamanship, and want to save lives, the Coast Guard is the branch to be in.

While it may not be as glamorous (for purposes of posting on boards such as

this one ) as having been a Black Knight or Royal Marine it's good,

important, and honorable service.

Hugh

[Shep]

With reference to Skoonj's post...

Don't let his bitterness over what he didn't get out of his service time affect your decision in the least. For every embittered veteran there are many more who would testify that their time was fruitful for them for many reasons. Development of inward character, physical fitness, money for college, service to one's country... we've all mentioned that and we mean it with all our hearts. I'm glad Skoonj chimed in with his sour grapes, because you need to hear that viewpoint, and to listen to it clearly refuted.

Minnesota Joe: I didn't join for money, or because I had nowhere else to go. I had everything to lose by joining the service, and yet I went. I went after I had my Master's Degree, and because I damn well wanted to. I served not as an officer, but as an enlisted man, and because of a training injury, I never rose in rank. I gave up time and lots of money to serve my country, and I don't regret it for a moment. Not for the country I live in, or the men I served with. You seem to be an honest and good young man... you'll enjoy it for the most part and do well.

Mark

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Scouts Out!