Questions of Course

[kb6583]

Just got the whole Normandy download package. So playing as the Brits to start and I'm a bit baffled. Specifically, the variety of Bren carriers. Lots of them in a scenario I've begun. I see several with just drivers. Yet I also see that they have a machine gun. Does the Bren carrier have to be loaded with personnel in order to make use of the machine gun? Also, I have Bren mortar carriers with 51mm mortars, which on close examination on the map appear to be in boxes on the Bren Carrier. How am I supposed to use these?

[Halmbarte]

My usual response to new units I haven't used before is to set up a quick battle with them and give them a go. Better to get a quick shakedown in with them than to discover things during a scenario. 

H

[kohlenklau]

If you like reading manuals, the main game folder will have pdf's you can look over. It helps a little!

That mortar box is probably the engine for the carrier. You might be seeing mortar AMMO. 

Like the other guy suggested, fire up a QB and play hotseat versus yourself, you don't spoil a scenario that way.

 

[kohlenklau]

What scenario is it? If you want I can take a looky and try to answer your questions. Get you headed toward enjoying the game.

 

[Warts 'n' all]

Your mistake is labelling them all "Bren" carriers. They weren't.

[chuckdyke]

9 hours ago, kb6583 said:

How am I supposed to use these?

Acquire whoever is mounted on the carrier. With the 51 mm mortar I let the driver acquire it and dismount (bail out). That was the Recce Universal carrier. You need to quote the scenario and the formation. Used well it is one of the best AFVs out there. With recce units hide the vehicle and dismount. Vehicles are easy to spot not something you like to do on a recce mission. 

[womble]

13 hours ago, kb6583 said:

...Bren carriers. Lots of them in a scenario I've begun. I see several with just drivers. Yet I also see that they have a machine gun. Does the Bren carrier have to be loaded with personnel in order to make use of the machine gun?

Aye, the driver can't be gunner too, so you have to mount someone up to use the on-board MG. It largely doesn't matter who  That said, like all APCs, be careful about putting them into direct fire roles: there are many things that can easily kill them. I'd generally use them to maintain suppression that's been achieved by other, less fragile units, from keyhole positions.

13 hours ago, kb6583 said:

Bren mortar carriers with 51mm mortars, which on close examination on the map appear to be in boxes on the Bren Carrier. How am I supposed to use these?

The 50mm mortar is an infantry weapon. You'll see it scattered through other formations that don't have Universal Carriers at all. To use the ones in the carrier, you need to mount up an infantry element, then use the Acquire command. Don't forget to take the ammo too  Then dismount them, and it'll be available for the infantry element to use.

[PEB14]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:54 AM, womble said:

Aye, the driver can't be gunner too, so you have to mount someone up to use the on-board MG. It largely doesn't matter who  That said, like all APCs, be careful about putting them into direct fire roles: there are many things that can easily kill them. I'd generally use them to maintain suppression that's been achieved by other, less fragile units, from keyhole positions.

As long as you stay out of AT weapons range (PzFaust/Schrecks), these Bren carriers excellent suppression tool as the protection offered to the driver and gunner isinsane and they are usually not targeted by the AI...

 

On 7/16/2023 at 11:54 AM, womble said:

The 50mm mortar is an infantry weapon. You'll see it scattered through other formations that don't have Universal Carriers at all. To use the ones in the carrier, you need to mount up an infantry element, then use the Acquire command. Don't forget to take the ammo too  Then dismount them, and it'll be available for the infantry element to use.

It looks like the mortar can only be used by the unit traveling in the carrier (or the carrier's driver). Same thing for the PIAT.

[Warts 'n' all]

The man from Wimbledon Common is correct. Both 2inch mortars and PIATs can be grabbed by infantry men using "Acquire".

For example. Put a Limey Scout team into a carrier acquire the PIAT and it's spare ammo. Dismount the Scouts, and the third man in the team will appear on screen carrying the PIAT. The same thing will happen in the case of the 2inch mortar. This can be checked by either looking at the UI or by looking at your pixel Limeys.

I think that the only carrier that doesn't hold spare ammo is the MMG Carrier.

[PEB14]

41 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

The man from Wimbledon Common is correct. Both 2inch mortars and PIATs can be grabbed by infantry men using "Acquire".

For example. Put a Limey Scout team into a carrier acquire the PIAT and it's spare ammo. Dismount the Scouts, and the third man in the team will appear on screen carrying the PIAT. The same thing will happen in the case of the 2inch mortar. This can be checked by either looking at the UI or by looking at your pixel Limeys.

I think that the only carrier that doesn't hold spare ammo is the MMG Carrier.

In the third mission of the Scottish Corridor Campaign, I had an IC Team and a standard (Scottish!) infantry team acquire a mortar and a PIAT from the Support Co Carriers, respectively.

None of the acquiring teams showed any of the acquired weapons in their respective inventory, which leads me to think that not everybody can use these weapons.

I nevertheless agree that more tests are required to confirm my assessment...

[chuckdyke]

16 minutes ago, PEB14 said:

I nevertheless agree that more tests are required to confirm my assessment...

I had the recon crew acquire the weapons from a universal carrier. Scenario the Loamshires. 

[Warts 'n' all]

52 minutes ago, PEB14 said:

In the third mission of the Scottish Corridor Campaign, I had an IC Team and a standard (Scottish!) infantry team acquire a mortar and a PIAT from the Support Co Carriers, respectively.

None of the acquiring teams showed any of the acquired weapons in their respective inventory, which leads me to think that not everybody can use these weapons.

I nevertheless agree that more tests are required to confirm my assessment...

I think that the mission you are referring to is called "Hansel and Gretel", but remember in a branching campaign, you're mission 3 might not be the same as someone else's mission 3.

I had no trouble grabbing a mortar and it's ammo from one of the carriers. I couldn't find any vehicle from the Support Company carrying a PIAT, although the Bedford was carrying two spare rounds which I got without a snag.

In situations like this try and give us old uns some screenshots so we can work out exactly what is going wrong.

[PEB14]

3 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I think that the mission you are referring to is called "Hansel and Gretel", but remember in a branching campaign, you're mission 3 might not be the same as someone else's mission 3.

Correct.

 

3 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I had no trouble grabbing a mortar and it's ammo from one of the carriers.

What unit did acquire the mortar?

 

3 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I couldn't find any vehicle from the Support Company carrying a PIAT, although the Bedford was carrying two spare rounds which I got without a snag.

IIRC the PIAT was in a Support Company's carrier, and the mortar in the AT unit's (Loyd?) carrier. But it may be the other way round.

 

3 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

In situations like this try and give us old uns some screenshots so we can work out exactly what is going wrong.

You're correct; I didn't because I haven't considered this as a "wrong issue"; I tried to acquire weapons using "non proprietary units", so I thought it was working "as intended". As a matter of fact, in the fourth mission I was able to acquire a PIAT using the carrier's driver, exactly as depicted by @chuckdyke. That's why my interpretation was that only the carrier's "proprietary" unit may use weapons that may be acquired from the carrier (not ammo).

By the way, Bren carriers are really gamey; any unit can drive them, and you cannot dismount the vehicle's Bren, like it was supposed to be in real life. Protection offered by the carrier for both driver and gunner is gorgeous, which makes the Bren carrier more powerful than a German SdKfz 251/1: protection is better, cross-country ability is better... In the game they are best used as suppression tool, something they were clearly not designed for.

[kb6583]

The scenario is "My Honor is My Loyalty" and I'm playing the Brits. I understand that this is a meeting engagement type of scenario, so off I go as the Brits, no doubt expecting to run into some nasty Germans. These British 2 inch mortars just have me stymied in how to use them. Infantry units have them but it appears that they have to be employed in direct fire - no indirect fire here with these. Then of course we get to the mortar carriers, discussed at length above. I've tried putting some scout teams in them and using the acquire and dismount commands, but I don't see them with those 2 inch mortars. I'll try again and look more closely at them on the map. So does anyone have any additional advice or comment?

[PEB14]

15 minutes ago, kb6583 said:

The scenario is "My Honor is My Loyalty" and I'm playing the Brits. I understand that this is a meeting engagement type of scenario, so off I go as the Brits, no doubt expecting to run into some nasty Germans. These British 2 inch mortars just have me stymied in how to use them. Infantry units have them but it appears that they have to be employed in direct fire - no indirect fire here with these.

Yes, British light mortars are intended to be used in direct fire mode.

 

15 minutes ago, kb6583 said:

Then of course we get to the mortar carriers, discussed at length above. I've tried putting some scout teams in them and using the acquire and dismount commands, but I don't see them with those 2 inch mortars. I'll try again and look more closely at them on the map. So does anyone have any additional advice or comment?

You are facing exactly the same issue that I did. You should have either the Carrier's driver or the initial Carrier's passengers acquire the mortar, and it should appear in their inventory properly.

[kb6583]

Ok. Tried it all again. Load even just a couple of scout teams on piat and/or 2 inch mortar carriers. Once the game starts, click on those scout teams and click acquire the mortar and its ammo or the piat launcher and then its ammo, and then click dismount. Resume game and watch them dismount. What has been throwing me is that up close none of them seem to be carrying a mortar or piat when I deploy them. Yet, those carriers are not showing any mortars, piats, or their ammo - those scout teams instead are shown carrying them instead. Thanks to all for the above advice. 

[PEB14]

8 hours ago, kb6583 said:

Ok. Tried it all again. Load even just a couple of scout teams on piat and/or 2 inch mortar carriers. Once the game starts, click on those scout teams and click acquire the mortar and its ammo or the piat launcher and then its ammo, and then click dismount. Resume game and watch them dismount. What has been throwing me is that up close none of them seem to be carrying a mortar or piat when I deploy them. Yet, those carriers are not showing any mortars, piats, or their ammo - those scout teams instead are shown carrying them instead. Thanks to all for the above advice. 

Do you mean that you loaded scout teams from a DIFFERENT unit before game start, and then acquired the stuff AFTER game start? And this way you were able to get the PIAT and mortar usable?

[Warts 'n' all]

When I tested "Hansel and Gretel" the other day it was the Scout team on the far left that successfully acquired the 2in Mortar and the spare ammo from the carrier they were in.

When I tried with the company HQ, and with standard infantry teams they acquired the mortars and ammo but don't appear to want to, or be able to use them. The ammo count changes in the UI, but none of my pixelLimeys are carrying the mortar, and the Target Smoke" command remains greyed out. 

Now casting my old noddle head back to when I actually played the campaign. I didn't actually take the mortars. I just had my Light Mortar Detachments grab the spare ammo for themselves.

[PEB14]

11 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

When I tested "Hansel and Gretel" the other day it was the Scout team on the far left that successfully acquired the 2in Mortar and the spare ammo from the carrier they were in.

When I tried with the company HQ, and with standard infantry teams they acquired the mortars and ammo but don't appear to want to, or be able to use them. The ammo count changes in the UI, but none of my pixelLimeys are carrying the mortar, and the Target Smoke" command remains greyed out. 

Now casting my old noddle head back to when I actually played the campaign. I didn't actually take the mortars. I just had my Light Mortar Detachments grab the spare ammo for themselves.

Thank you, that's exactly the behaviour I observed in my own Hansel and Gretel game.

[PEB14]

In the Mondrainville mission, I tried to acquire the 2-in mortar with the ammo bearer who rides the Carrier. Nope. Nothing in the inventory, the mortar is lost forever. And as I was stupid enough to acquire the HE shells as well, all the stuff is lost forever, as the ammo bearers won't share.

It definitively looks like only the DRIVER can successfully acquire weapons from a Carrier. That wouldn't cost much to indicate it in the game manual…

[PEB14]

Well finally even the driver wasn't able to use it…

[Warts 'n' all]

I've just taken a quick look. I can't find an ammo bearer on the map at the start of the mission. But, also, why would you give an ammo bearer a mortar? He wouldn't be trained to use it, and be too busy lugging ammo around.

[PEB14]

I finally made some tests, because relying on ocasional experiences in various scenarios is not enough. What I actually tested the ability of British infantry soldiers to recover weapons from the Support Company's different Carriers and Loyds.

The result is VERY clear.

ANYBODY can recover and use the PIATs and 2-in mortars from the CARRIER vehicles. The teams from the unit itself, the driver, or infantry teams from another company - all can use both the 2-in mortar and the PIAT.

On the other hand, NOBODY can recover and use the 2-in mortar from the Loyd carriers. If you check, in the AT tank sections of the Support Company there is a vehicle called 'X' mortar. This Loyd carrier owns a 2-in mortar. Well, NOBODY can recover and use this mortar, it never shows in the unit's inventory. I've tried with the Section's AT gun and ammo bearer teams, with the Loyd's driver, and with another company's infantry team. NOPE. NO WAY. This mortar CANNOT be used.

It sounds very much like a bug to me, and I'll post this in the big tracker thread.