Interactive AAR

[Flibby]

I posted a while back about creating an AAR to try to get some tactical advice. I have used the various resources in the forum including Bil H’s blogs to try to methodically approach a battle and see how this improves my typical results.

I would be really grateful for people’s honest insight into my planning process and then how the battle goes from here.

The battle that I have chosen is AD Snow Day from Combat Mission: Fortress Italy. I wasn’t able to find the designer to credit them. 

The scenario requires the capture of a small village. 

Our forces are 2 initial platoons of New Zealand Infantry with 1 platoon to arrive later on to complete the company. Supporting is a sniper, Vickers .303 water cooled WW1 HMG and mortars attached to the platoons with a low supply of HE and smoke rounds.

Enemy forces are a platoon strength unit likely with a number of MG34/42 positions at crucial points including in the village.

I have tried to identify the key terrain and avenues of approach. 

 

View from AA3 towards KT2

 

 

View from KT 2

 

KT 1 is the village itself. The village offers good observation over the open ground in the middle between the forest and the village objective. KT1 also offers observation over to KT2.

KT 2 is the forest on the left flank. KT2 offers observation of the ground required to pass in order to get into the objective area. If the enemy holds this ground they can pepper my forces with enfilade fire as we approach the objective. If we hold the ground we will be able to support our forces via supporting fires and clearing the area will ensure that our forces are not attacked from this angle.

There are three broad avenues of attack. AA1 which is the left flank to KT1. AA2 which is the central approach and AA3 which is the right flanking arrow. AA1 would leave a large area to cross to KT1 from KT2 and it would be difficult to support an assault from that angle. AA2 would be the obvious attack route due to the short distance of open ground before we could get a foothold in KT1. AA3 suffers the same issues as AA1 and does not allow for much support – in addition our forces could end up being funnelled in the small space available and held up by minor enemy forces. 

My thoughts are to take AA2 with a supporting smoke screen from KT2 allowing the advance and supporting fires from KT2 dealing with any fixed positions. 

My tentative plan is to work 1 Platoon along with the Vickers HMG and the mortar from 2 Platoon up to KT2. When KT2 is secured, 2 Platoon and 3 Platoon when available are to move to the stone wall in-front of the forest along AA2 before moving into the objective under cover of smoke. Once a foothold is established in the village, at that point victory should be certain.

How does the plan sound? Am I way off base with the key terrain / avenues of approach that other people would look at? One concern I have is that all of the potential positions for support, even KT2, are within a few hundred meters of observation and one way or another I am going to have to fight into KT2 and will lose people doing so unless I just smoke the open gap..

I will look to get the ball rolling on moves at the weekend.

[Combatintman]

I'd look at the enemy in a bit more detail before you leap into a plan.  You say it is platoon strength - so go and 'place' a German platoon on that map and think about it from the German defender's point of view.

[Glubokii Boy]

How much smoke do you have ? Whats the wind like ? Would it not be possible to smoke KT2 out of the picture entirely during the initial assult on the village. Attacking from AA2 or AA3. Ones you have a foothold in the village you ought to be able to gain fire suppeority against KT2 from there and suppress any enemy units on that hill. There cant be that many of them if the entire enemy force is belived to be at platoon strenth.

Ones the reinforcements arrive thoose guys could either try to clear KT2 if needed while that possition is being suppressed from the village or simply follow in the steps of the intial assult to help clearing the rest of the village..

I currently do not have CMFI installed so its a bit tricky to see the battlefield from a few pictures...But what i'm woundering...Do you really need to clear KT2 before assulting the village...Could it be smoked out of play ? 

 

 

 

 

[Flibby]

2 hours ago, Combatintman said:

I'd look at the enemy in a bit more detail before you leap into a plan.  You say it is platoon strength - so go and 'place' a German platoon on that map and think about it from the German defender's point of view.

That sounds like a great idea but I'm not sure where I'd start. Just place enemy positions where is out them? I would probably split squads down into sub units and set up mgs in the town and behind some walls or in hedges but the AI might be smarter than I 

[Flibby]

1 hour ago, Glubokii Boy said:

How much smoke do you have ? Whats the wind like ? Would it not be possible to smoke KT2 out of the picture entirely during the initial assult on the village. Attacking from AA2 or AA3. Ones you have a foothold in the village you ought to be able to gain fire suppeority against KT2 from there and suppress any enemy units on that hill. There cant be that many of them if the entire enemy force is belived to be at platoon strenth.

Ones the reinforcements arrive thoose guys could either try to clear KT2 if needed while that possition is being suppressed from the village or simply follow in the steps of the intial assult to help clearing the rest of the village..

I currently do not have CMFI installed so its a bit tricky to see the battlefield from a few pictures...But what i'm woundering...Do you really need to clear KT2 before assulting the village...Could it be smoked out of play ? 

 

 

 

 

 

The smoke is a weird one. I have smoke rounds and wp rounds which I thought were the same...around 8 of each I believe per tube, so plenty.

 

It's an interesting idea to skip KT2 but it would mean that my support by fire position was 60m or so from the enemy held buildings. I always have in my mind getting long distance MG support at as close to 90 degrees from my assaulting units as possible. 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

1 hour ago, Flibby said:

That sounds like a great idea but I'm not sure where I'd start. Just place enemy positions where is out them? I would probably split squads down into sub units and set up mgs in the town and behind some walls or in hedges but the AI might be smarter than I 

Basically how I approach it is to do the same analysis you have done but from the defender’s point of view. Identify the attackers likely AoAs, check observation onto those AoAs, identify obstacles and choke points etc (basically OCOKA) and then think how you would set up a platoon using that info. Helps identify likely positions that the enemy may occupy and the type of defence they may employ (defence in depth, strongpoint etc). The forces they have available will influence that too.

MMM

Edited August 18, 2022 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Combatintman]

9 hours ago, Flibby said:

That sounds like a great idea but I'm not sure where I'd start. Just place enemy positions where is out them? I would probably split squads down into sub units and set up mgs in the town and behind some walls or in hedges but the AI might be smarter than I 

Have you read this tutorial yet ...

 

[IICptMillerII]

I'll throw in a shameless plug on this one as well:

https://millerswargamingvault.blogspot.com/2022/06/introduction-planning-is-critical-to.html

9 hours ago, Flibby said:

That sounds like a great idea but I'm not sure where I'd start.

Look at the map from the enemy point of view. What looks like obvious avenues of approach, and how would you cover/counter them if you were the enemy? This is sometimes referred to as "flipping the chessboard."

10 hours ago, Flibby said:

The smoke is a weird one. I have smoke rounds and wp rounds which I thought were the same...around 8 of each I believe per tube, so plenty.

Be very careful with smoke. It is often thrown around as the tactical solution to everything, and most of the time it isn't. As a rule of thumb, never advance through your own smoke, never drop smoke directly in front of your axis of advance or defense, and never blind yourself with your own smoke, even if you blind the enemy as well. 

For now my advice would be to come up with your plan for the battle, and then post it here for others to analyze for you. That way you can try it yourself, get some feedback on it, and then give it a go based on that feedback. 

 

[chuckdyke]

Smoke and WP. WP is quicker and disappears quicker plus it is unpleasant for people in the proximity. Weather conditions plays a role too. Best way to find out after you got your *ss whipped replay against yourself on Hotseat. 

[Flibby]

5 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Smoke and WP. WP is quicker and disappears quicker plus it is unpleasant for people in the proximity. Weather conditions plays a role too. Best way to find out after you got your *ss whipped replay against yourself on Hotseat. 

 

I know of WP being used with unpleasant consequences in the Falklands. Can you choose which your troops will fire?

[Flibby]

So I decided to try out my initial plan first – to see how it would progress.

 

Initial moves over towards KT2 showed that the enemy had any route over to KT2 covered with at least one MG42 which took a casualty from the first team to hop over the wall.

 

I moved up my mortar to deal with the position and after some very wayward shots he was able to do so. This allowed my troops to get into the concealment at the base of KT2. This move was still a bit hairy and caused some losses. With the benefit of hindsight perhaps I should have moved in bounding overwatch but I just wanted to get them out of the killing zone. I wouldn't have been able to suppress the enemy troops in buildings effectively anyway.

It then became clear that the enemy had troops at the far end of KT2 which would have enfiladed the frontal approach to the village, as I feared

At this point I could get my HMG deployed and firing into the positions that had been revealed in the village proper. I was able to clear KT2 from short range and then close with the village, get into the first building and then overpower the remaining enemy positions. The enemy was then forced into a surrender.

I did however suffer a greater number of casualties than I would have liked. 13 dead in total. For such an attack against an enemy in an urban position perhaps this is not too bad in a WW2 context? I found that it certainly helped to have conducted a proper assessment of the enemy positions, key terrain and routes in. Perhaps smoke could have worked better, but by moving over to KT2 in the clear I was able to find out where the enemy was in KT1.

 

I realise that this was probably not the hardest scenario and was against the AI – does anyone have any suggestions for a harder challenge on a map which would let me so similar to continue the learning process?

 

[Flibby]

Just as a separate point, someone mentioned not bothering with the flank attack and just using the centre and then smoke to block off any enfilade fire.

Upon trying this, as my scouts are going through the wood they find a HMG just off to the left. I don't know how to tactically approach this situation. Instinctively I would look to get into cover (the wall here) but when moving the section up to the wall, most of them bit the dust. In order to suppress an HMG on a tripod in decent cover without armour seems a hard task. Obvious a mortar would be the best weapon but here there is very limited scope to get a mortar to any sort of range where the HMG isn't going to nail him. In fact, an HMG's range is longer than a mortar so unless you have a well concealed area to get your mortar to, how are you to get a decent number of shots off without being spotted and nailed?

Edited August 19, 2022 by Flibby

[chuckdyke]

9 hours ago, Flibby said:

Can you choose which your troops will fire?

Not that I know of. WW2 the British 50 mm mortar, you must first deplete run out of smoke before you start the WP. And you must use smoke before you start the HE. Once you run out of HE you lose all your smoking munitions too. In some modern scenarios WP is the only smoking munitions. IMO in Black Sea WP is poorly modelled conditions dry and I fired WP at a concealed contact among the shrub. I assumed it would start a little bushfire, living in Australia I know it doesn't take much. But it took out an enemy infantry. 

[Flibby]

21 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Not that I know of. WW2 the British 50 mm mortar, you must first deplete run out of smoke before you start the WP. And you must use smoke before you start the HE. Once you run out of HE you lose all your smoking munitions too. In some modern scenarios WP is the only smoking munitions. IMO in Black Sea WP is poorly modelled conditions dry and I fired WP at a concealed contact among the shrub. I assumed it would start a little bushfire, living in Australia I know it doesn't take much. But it took out an enemy infantry. 

I didn't realise that  ring out of HE stopped you from using smoke.

 

How would you explain dealing with MG positions? How can you gain fire superiority over a MG without tanks as infantry becomes pinned so quickly.

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Flibby said:

How would you explain dealing with MG positions?

British Commonwealth have three Brens in a platoon. You need all three of them to gain fire superiority over a single MG42 in a foxhole. While all three can fire on the MG42 the MG42 can engage only one at a time. While you get them into position the 50 mm applies obscuration with smoke just in front of the Foxhole also the squad leaders can pop smoke to aid in the positioning of the Brens. Don't use the Brens for direct fire at the MG42 but area fire at the Foxhole to make sure he stays pinned down. The assault party with the Sten and hand grenades finishes him. Easier said than done but it works. Good scenario is CW 18 Patrol in Battle of Normandy to get the hang how to handle a British platoon. This scenario doesn't have Germans in Foxholes but *SPOILER* 2 MG42's the two green sections are the ammo bearers for the Brens. The third regular section as the assault with sten and hand grenades you can also split the leaders from the Green sections to use their Stens at close range. 

[Flibby]

7 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

British Commonwealth have three Brens in a platoon. You need all three of them to gain fire superiority over a single MG42 in a foxhole. While all three can fire on the MG42 the MG42 can engage only one at a time. While you get them into position the 50 mm applies obscuration with smoke just in front of the Foxhole also the squad leaders can pop smoke to aid in the positioning of the Brens. Don't use the Brens for direct fire at the MG42 but area fire at the Foxhole to make sure he stays pinned down. The assault party with the Sten and hand grenades finishes him. Easier said than done but it works. Good scenario is CW 18 Patrol in Battle of Normandy to get the hang how to handle a British platoon. This scenario doesn't have Germans in Foxholes but *SPOILER* 2 MG42's the two green sections are the ammo bearers for the Brens. The third regular section as the assault with sten and hand grenades you can also split the leaders from the Green sections to use their Stens at close range. 

Thanks for that let me try it out.

[Flibby]

I took the time to use much more smoke on the attack and use it to get the brens and mortars into better positions. Only 6 men killed which is much better thanks for the very helpful advice. How much was smoke used historically for these purposes? I don't remember seeing it discussed too much in handbooks of the time.

 

[chuckdyke]

4 minutes ago, Flibby said:

How much was smoke used historically for these purposes?

I think the game is abstract in this regard. I use what I have available, I pointed out if you don't use your smoke munitions you lose it.