Cold War Public Beta Tournament

[Simcoe]

14 minutes ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

The other sides password is already preset to being empty. (in this case I believe the blue side)

This is a technical limitation of CM2 engine when combined with the Slitherine tournament system. I hope something will be found to mediate this.

Or at least some documentation. The couple paragraphs in the engine 4 manual is pretty lackluster. 

I would never have guessed to just leave it blank.

[Stimo]

I have to enter my username+password+email address every time I use the PBEM++ system, is it supposed to work this way ?

[The_MonkeyKing]

Just now, Stimo said:

I have to enter my username+password+email address every time I use the PBEM++ system, is it supposed to work this way ?

I only have to re-enter my password every time. So something is up with your end.

[MeatEtr]

6 hours ago, Grimtechnique said:

Hi MeatEtr, I am your opponent, I would suggest reaching out on the CM discord if you are having a technical problem. They are very responsive on there so it might be possible to fix the problem in time for us to get the games in.

Hiya Grim, thanks for the heads up for discord. But I didnt see anything helpful over there. As of right now only 13 out of 54 players have scored any points. So apparently I'm or we are not alone.

[Andrew Kulin]

So far I have only received the initial turn for the Russian side and entered a blank password.  No US turn received.  And I know now who my opponent is but I cannot contact him. So I guess I will wait and if nothing happens then so be it.

One thing I should maybe report that could be at play here happened to me over the weekend.  I am playing a couple of battles with a friend (with PBEM ++), and was at cottage over the weekend playing on my laptop.  In one battle I finished a turn, and it never was sent to him.  Tried it a number of times and it just never sent.  And there was never any indication on my side.  Came home and used my main PC and it was fine and we are continuing nicely.  Earlier turns of that match played on the laptop did make it out whilst I was at the cottage. 

Another thing I now notice regarding the tournament game turn, there is no indication of it on the game screen.  But for my other PBEM ++ challenge games my sent turns do show up in the lists, just that an orange circle with a slash appears when I try to highlight the turn (meaning not for me).  Thinking back on my weekend experience, I don't recall having seen the missing turn I sent my friend show up on the list of turns.

[Simcoe]

8 hours ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

The other sides password is already preset to being empty. (in this case I believe the blue side)

This is a technical limitation of CM2 engine when combined with the Slitherine tournament system. I hope something will be found to mediate this.

I would never guess to just leave it blank. Thank you. Would be nice to get more than a couple paragraphs of documentation in the manual....

[Andrew Kulin]

So if password must be left blank, does that mean cheating is possible in tournaments?

[The_MonkeyKing]

3 minutes ago, Simcoe said:

I would never guess to just leave it blank. Thank you. Would be nice to get more than a couple paragraphs of documentation in the manual....

Well, this is a beta. These things are supposed to come up now.

This is a hard thing to do. Integrating different systems from different organizations and very old systems at that and most importantly on a budget.

[Grimtechnique]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Kulin said:

So if password must be left blank, does that mean cheating is possible in tournaments?

Unlikely due to your PBEM++ account being password protected, your saves are theoretically protected from that.

3 hours ago, MeatEtr said:

Hiya Grim, thanks for the heads up for discord. But I didnt see anything helpful over there. As of right now only 13 out of 54 players have scored any points. So apparently I'm or we are not alone.

It's more so you could speak to one of the staff members that seems to understand the system they are using, failing that it might be a good idea to raise a support ticket, though not sure which company to raise the ticket with. Just checked the leaderboards still only 7 of the games have started in any meaningful way so it could well not be just you suffering this issue.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Grimtechnique

[BFCElvis]

  

8 hours ago, Simcoe said:

Or at least some documentation. The couple paragraphs in the engine 4 manual is pretty lackluster. 

I would never have guessed to just leave it blank.

In the tournament announcement we put this:

 

Quote

Password protection is built into the PBEM files but this feature isn't needed for tournaments so we advise you to leave all password fields blank.

Looking back it should really have said "DO NOT USE PASSWORD PROTECTION PASSWORDS" or somehow have been a bit more forceful is making sure that people didn't.

The PBEM++ system eliminates the need for the password protection because the email turns don't reside locally on a players computer. They reside on the Matrix server. Which means the cheating that people can try with the Manual PBEM system isn't available.

And here is why you're seeing what you're seeing with the passwords the way that they are set up now. With Combat Mission you pick which side you're playing before picking the mode of play. Since the tournaments are each player playing both sides of a battle then they need to have the first turn they see already having had the side chosen. For instance, if the first file Player 1 sees has them playing as Red they then send it off then Player 2 has 2 files. The one sent to them which has them as Blue and the initial file everyone gets that has them as Red. Boom. Off we go. What we've done is instead of using a "scenario" (btt) file we've opened a scenario in CM as a Manual PBEM game. Selected the side and left the password blank and used the PBEM file (ema) as the "scenario" file. That way the side has already been chosen. If everyone leaves the password spaces as blank, ignores them, they can just proceed to the battle. 

The alternative would have been to let the players choose the side for the initial files. Telling both players to choose Blue, for instance, with the first file. But the chances of people missing that in the announcement are the same as not seeing the password part. And Player 1 chooses Blue with the first file but Player 2 chooses Red with the first file. Then Player 1 has 2 battles that he is playing as Blue in both.

8 hours ago, Simcoe said:

Or at least some documentation. The couple paragraphs in the engine 4 manual is pretty lackluster. 

When the tournament feature is complete a new section for it will be added to the manual but since it isn't compete it will wait until it is. 

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone.

[Simcoe]

1 hour ago, BFCElvis said:

  

In the tournament announcement we put this:

 

Looking back it should really have said "DO NOT USE PASSWORD PROTECTION PASSWORDS" or somehow have been a bit more forceful is making sure that people didn't.

The PBEM++ system eliminates the need for the password protection because the email turns don't reside locally on a players computer. They reside on the Matrix server. Which means the cheating that people can try with the Manual PBEM system isn't available.

And here is why you're seeing what you're seeing with the passwords the way that they are set up now. With Combat Mission you pick which side you're playing before picking the mode of play. Since the tournaments are each player playing both sides of a battle then they need to have the first turn they see already having had the side chosen. For instance, if the first file Player 1 sees has them playing as Red they then send it off then Player 2 has 2 files. The one sent to them which has them as Blue and the initial file everyone gets that has them as Red. Boom. Off we go. What we've done is instead of using a "scenario" (btt) file we've opened a scenario in CM as a Manual PBEM game. Selected the side and left the password blank and used the PBEM file (ema) as the "scenario" file. That way the side has already been chosen. If everyone leaves the password spaces as blank, ignores them, they can just proceed to the battle. 

The alternative would have been to let the players choose the side for the initial files. Telling both players to choose Blue, for instance, with the first file. But the chances of people missing that in the announcement are the same as not seeing the password part. And Player 1 chooses Blue with the first file but Player 2 chooses Red with the first file. Then Player 1 has 2 battles that he is playing as Blue in both.

When the tournament feature is complete a new section for it will be added to the manual but since it isn't compete it will wait until it is. 

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone.

I created a password for rhe soviet side. Does that mean my opponent can't access them?

Thank you for the response. Hope you guys see this as constructive criticism. 

[BFCElvis]

17 minutes ago, Simcoe said:

I created a password for rhe soviet side. Does that mean my opponent can't access them?

Thank you for the response. Hope you guys see this as constructive criticism. 

Funny that you say that. I was just having a discussion where I realized that we could set the passwords for both sides ahead of time.

Correct, players can't access the turns because they aren't on their hard drive. They are on the Matrix servers.

DEFINITELY appreciate constructive criticism. That is what a "public beta" is for.  

[Simcoe]

14 minutes ago, BFCElvis said:

Funny that you say that. I was just having a discussion where I realized that we could set the passwords for both sides ahead of time.

Correct, players can't access the turns because they aren't on their hard drive. They are on the Matrix servers.

DEFINITELY appreciate constructive criticism. That is what a "public beta" is for.  

I mean does it prevent them from playing that side? Sounds like they can though.

[The_MonkeyKing]

12 minutes ago, Simcoe said:

I mean does it prevent them from playing that side? Sounds like they can though.

Even in regular PBEM++ you cannot even try to play the other sides turns. (you can even see them)

Presumably the same magic applies here.

[nijis]

Having very similar problems. I entered the Soviet password and the game file disappeared. However, about eight hours ago I noticed that it had reappeared with the message "Please do not touch." It appears the tournament admins are on this issue.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by nijis

[Artkin]

I have not seen the "Please do not touch" message yet but I am having issues as well. Like a dummy I both started a little late, and because of that I did not fully read the rules initially. Afterward I saw this at the bottom of the webpage: "leave all password fields blank.".

I figured out my US file had an empty password made for me, but like a dummy I set a password for the Soviet side.

[Simcoe]

Are you not allowed to open a turn, save it, come back and hit the end turn button? 

First time I played the Soviets I made my orders, saved it, came back for a few more tweaks, hit the end turn button and nothing. I come back, plan the defense, hit the end turn button and it seems to work.

[The_MonkeyKing]

5 hours ago, nijis said:

Having very similar problems. I entered the Soviet password and the game file disappeared. However, about eight hours ago I noticed that it had reappeared with the message "Please do not touch." It appears the tournament admins are on this issue.

 

 

You are looking at the tournament signup menu. There was a test tournament named do not touch. It is little confusing because the menus look identical (other than one line of text).

Also parting from the regular PBEM++ at the moment at least you cannot see the other players turns. So after completion the "disappear".

5 hours ago, Artkin said:

I have not seen the "Please do not touch" message yet but I am having issues as well. Like a dummy I both started a little late, and because of that I did not fully read the rules initially. Afterward I saw this at the bottom of the webpage: "leave all password fields blank.".

I figured out my US file had an empty password made for me, but like a dummy I set a password for the Soviet side.

Doesn't matter. Putting a password to the other one doesn't do any harm.

[Artkin]

2 minutes ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

Doesn't matter. Putting a password to the other one doesn't do any harm.

Ok well, when I opened my US file and submitted it with my orders - I saw it in both my incoming and outgoing folders.

But when I opened my Soviet file and submitted it I don't see it on my PC. 

Ok sure it goes to slitherines servers, but why did the US game save to my hdd but not the Soviet? 

At this point I have sent the Soviet file twice. Once on the 5th, and once on the 6th. 

I haven't received anything from my opponent. I have emailed them though. 

[Henniak-HKVB]

Hi.

I played my US déploiement file 2 times , but the game still notice this is my turn to play. " [T] Henniak "

Same for soviet file , juste tape password (i know now it's wrong) , and still notice " [T] Henniak "

I'm playing Aulette. 

[Andrew Kulin]

This is all I see and the one turn listed is not playable.  There had been a do not touch version in the list that disappeared yesterday.

So is the lack of results seen on the Slitherine web page due to people not sending back turns or is there an issue with the system as being hinted at in these posts?  Or just playing but not yet finished their games yet?

[BFCElvis]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Kulin said:

This is all I see and the one turn listed is not playable.  There had been a do not touch version in the list that disappeared yesterday.

So is the lack of results seen on the Slitherine web page due to people not sending back turns or is there an issue with the system as being hinted at in these posts?  Or just playing but not yet finished their games yet?

  

14 hours ago, nijis said:

Having very similar problems. I entered the Soviet password and the game file disappeared. However, about eight hours ago I noticed that it had reappeared with the message "Please do not touch." It appears the tournament admins are on this issue.

 

 

What you guys are referring to is part of the system used to join a tournament. Not to play the turns. The turns will appear in the In Progress list like this (yes, I know I have to tidy up older files):

[Simcoe]

21 hours ago, Simcoe said:

Are you not allowed to open a turn, save it, come back and hit the end turn button? 

First time I played the Soviets I made my orders, saved it, came back for a few more tweaks, hit the end turn button and nothing. I come back, plan the defense, hit the end turn button and it seems to work.

@BFCElvis checking in on this.

When I save during the planning phase, come back later to tweak something and press the end turn button my turn does not register. The turn still shows up in the queue.

Is this intended?

[The_MonkeyKing]

5 hours ago, Simcoe said:

@BFCElvis checking in on this.

When I save during the planning phase, come back later to tweak something and press the end turn button my turn does not register. The turn still shows up in the queue.

Is this intended?

I am not sure if one can save and continue later.

But I do know for even a change of this working you need to be logged in to PBEM++. Meaning visit the PBEM++ menu before playing the turn

[Simcoe]

15 minutes ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

I am not sure if one can save and continue later.

But I do know for even a change of this working you need to be logged in to PBEM++. Meaning visit the PBEM++ menu before playing the turn

I would like to get this confirmed because a large battle can take a couple hours to plan the first turn and it's nice to be able to come back and finish giving orders later.