CM WW II - good short learning scenarios?

[Kevinorf]

I have all the CM WW II games and expansion modules. I've watched some tutorial videos and done all the tutorial missions. I feel like I'm a bit stuck in second gear, with success in some scenarios while doing terrible in others. For example I started the Devil's Descent Campaign - I did okay in the first scenarios or two and just got butchered in the next few...

I feel like I did okay in the tutorial missions - even the last ones where the manual doesn't hold your hand as much.

What are some good short scenarios to practice and perfect tactics?

[Vacillator]

6 minutes ago, Kevinorf said:

success in some scenarios while doing terrible in others

This is a common experience my friend.  I started with somewhat larger scenarios in RT (because I like a lot of armour and possibly because the demo scenarios were I think medium size) and soon found I had pre-conceptions of what my heavy panzers could do.  I was on a steep learning curve and had little idea of how to manage movement, comms and LOS/LOF.  I'm still learning and sometimes (particularly against PBEM players) you just have to accept that the mix of game setting, units etc. combined with your own capability and luck have not worked out in your favour.  The opponent's capability might also come into it .

I'm not sure about practice scenarios but will have a think.

[Erwin]

While smaller scenarios would seem to be better for learning, conversely in the smaller scenarios a very few casualties can mean a loss.  The advantage of large scenarios is that (usually) one can take losses and learn from that, but still have reserves to move forwards with one's (hopefully improved) plan.

[Commanderski]

Sometimes the bigger ones are better as they force you to take your time, or at least should.

Take your time with the game. No need to hurry through. Look over the battlefield, get down to ground level to get a good idea of the terrain and plan your moves. It takes time and practice, usually lots of both...

[chuckdyke]

In FB Trouble with Siegfried and a Muddy Affair. 

[Kevinorf]

Not exactly the responses I expected but really good advice and suggestions.

So to rephrase, what are some good LARGE scenarios y'all can recommend - LOL!

[Kevinorf]

8 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

In FB Trouble with Siegfried and a Muddy Affair. 

It's funny you mention Trouble with Siegfried, because I was just trying that today. I know I'm rushing into it too quickly because I'm taking a lot of losses. I need to apply some suppression fire pronto. Any tips?

Muddy Affair looks good too...

[chuckdyke]

8 minutes ago, Kevinorf said:

Any tips

Advance on the right slowly use your engineers to clear a path through the minefield. Create a base of fire on the right side of the map then you push left. Capture I think the hotel there. Minefields are created to funnel your approach in a killing area of your opponent's choosing. Always consider attacking a minefield. 

 

[Erwin]

48 minutes ago, Kevinorf said:

Not exactly the responses I expected but really good advice and suggestions.

So to rephrase, what are some good LARGE scenarios y'all can recommend - LOL!

The very best CMFB scenario that I recall as the best was "Mission to Maas".  However, it's VERY big and you'll need a powerful machine.

Other than that in terms of training you may not want to play the very best scenarios as that may "ruin" em for you.  So, maybe learn on lesser ones until you fancy yourself to be a good player.  So, for starters, you could just pick any scenario from the list that tells you it's big.

 

[chuckdyke]

A War Without Mercy. You need to do research and learn tactics. If you play it seriously this game can take up to a year. Study the terrain, organize your traffic and formations. I would say look at it six months from now. 

[Bulletpoint]

6 hours ago, Erwin said:

The very best CMFB scenario that I recall as the best was "Mission to Maas".

While I agree this is an excellent scenario, I would definitely not recommend it for a beginner.

However, the same author made a whole campaign for KG Peiper, called "Rollbahn D".

It's an enormous campaign, but the first several battles are quite small and not too difficult, since they are in the beginning of the attack when the Germans had the advantage.

[Kevinorf]

3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

While I agree this is an excellent scenario, I would definitely not recommend it for a beginner.

However, the same author made a whole campaign for KG Peiper, called "Rollbahn D".

It's an enormous campaign, but the first several battles are quite small and not too difficult, since they are in the beginning of the attack when the Germans had the advantage.

I started Rollbahn D. Played first battle and got a total victory, but a bit reckless. Feel like I could have taken fewer casualties. Probably replay it.

Good suggestion!

 

[Kevinorf]

Can anyone offer a few basic tips on mortars? I can generally use them but sometimes I don't have line of sight or they are out of range of my spotters.

I know spotters and leaders can call them in and I assume they need to have line of sight to intended target.

Do I need to keep a unit with a radio by the mortars also so they can speak to the spotters? Sometimes it feels like I need one. Other times it seems like I don't. ???

How close should I keep the mortars to my advancing troops?

[Kevinorf]

I may restart Devil's Descent.

Anyone have tips on this one? Seems like the first scenario or two are easy, then it gets, well, Devilishly difficult.

I'll be doing okay and then have a unit get devastated by a machine gun.

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

Mortars can be used in one of two ways, firing direct (for which they need LOS to the target) or indirectly (called in by other units, the mortars themselves do not need LOS).

To be used in indirect mode they have to be in C2 with a higher unit that has C2 with the unit calling for fire. So for example if you have a US platoon HQ calling in fire but the mortars are out of contact with their section/platoon HQ or higher then the mortar will show as unavailable. They have to be able to receive the order from the network. It's not so much of a problem with western forces that have radios but when it comes to the Soviets in RT then you need to be really careful about maintaining C2 links or they will not be able to fire indirectly (assuming they are on-map of course).

That make sense?

Also as a new player I would recommend reading Bil's excellent blog for tips on how to apply real life tactics to the CM games: https://battledrill.blogspot.com/

MMM

[Kevinorf]

4 minutes ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

Mortars can be used in one of two ways, firing direct (for which they need LOS to the target) or indirectly (called in by other units, the mortars themselves do not need LOS).

To be used in indirect mode they have to be in C2 with a higher unit that has C2 with the unit calling for fire. So for example if you have a US platoon HQ calling in fire but the mortars are out of contact with their section/platoon HQ or higher then the mortar will show as unavailable. They have to be able to receive the order from the network. It's not so much of a problem with western forces that have radios but when it comes to the Soviets in RT then you need to be really careful about maintaining C2 links or they will not be able to fire indirectly (assuming they are on-map of course).

That make sense?

Also as a new player I would recommend reading Bil's excellent blog for tips on how to apply real life tactics to the CM games: https://battledrill.blogspot.com/

MMM

Thanks. A little hazy but it will make more sense the more I play. For indirect fire, should I keep a unit with a radio by the mortars?

That blog looks excellent!

[chuckdyke]

13 minutes ago, Kevinorf said:

Thanks. A little hazy but it will make more sense the more I play. For indirect fire, should I keep a unit with a radio by the mortars?

Yes, it takes a little practice but especially with the US 60mm mortar and also the 81mm you get a semi-indirect fire effect from a defilade position. That means you position your mortar just behind a ridge. That way only other artillery will be able to get you. This mission had two purposes I wanted the Germans to reveal some of their position. Be aware do always combined arms. With a human player it is not that easy but the AI is pretty dumb. Yes, for proper indirect fire your mortars need a radio nearby. Another reason to use the direct fire mode by carefully selecting the terrain. Your ammo is soon wasted by spotting rounds.

Edited March 3, 2022 by chuckdyke

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

1 hour ago, Kevinorf said:

Thanks. A little hazy but it will make more sense the more I play. For indirect fire, should I keep a unit with a radio by the mortars?

Not necessarily a radio but ideally yes. As long as they can see or hear a unit who is in contact with whoever is requesting fire then you're good.

Have a play with it, fire up a QB and choose a formation that has on-map mortars and try placing them around in the setup zone to see what happens with different combinations.

MMM

[Erwin]

5 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

It's an enormous campaign, but the first several battles are quite small

Rollbahn D (CMFB again) is one of the  best campaigns out there.  However, some of the missions are very large.  The guy was asking about "scenarios".  A learner probably should attempt any campaigns as one can get partway thru and find that one cannot continue (the campaign kicks you out) due to losses.  That is very frustrating.

Re mortars, a basic rule would be to keep the 60mm and smaller mortars close to the front troops as they can very effectively fire direct.  The larger mortars should be kept back in safety and fired indirectly via a spotter.

CM abstracts landlines, so a spotter doesn't actually have to have a radio (icon).

Edited March 3, 2022 by Erwin

[Bulletpoint]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

Re mortars, a basic rule would be to keep the 60mm and smaller mortars close to the front troops as they can very effectively fire direct.  The larger mortars should be kept back in safety and fired indirectly via a spotter.

CM abstracts landlines, so a spotter doesn't actually have to have a radio (icon).

This is only true for off-map artillery though.

[Vacillator]

19 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

a Muddy Affair

This is a great scenario but perhaps not the easiest as a starter?  Played it by PBEM recently as German (arguably the easier option I think) and got a victory but it was quite a hard slog for both of us.

[Bulletpoint]

There's a CMBN scenario called Busting the Bocage which I'd recommend for a beginner. I remember playing it when I started out, one of the first scenarios I played actually, and it wasn't horribly difficult.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Bulletpoint

[chuckdyke]

7 hours ago, Erwin said:

CM abstracts landlines, so a spotter doesn't actually have to have a radio (icon).

The radio icon only indicates that he has radio contact with his C2 network by radio. If you click on the radio icon you go instantly to the unit, he is communicating with.