Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 CMRT. 9AM, panther tanks are driving right past my soviet infantry, within a couple meters and not being spotted. My infantry walk right next to them and are completely oblivious. Panther tanks spot my infantry approaching from the rear. I don't even know how to explain this. It's honestly that bad. These games have some serious spotting issues. It was very prevalent in CMCW. Now I'm seeing it in CMRT. Can I get a developer to look at this? This can't be right. Two turns ago I had the panther drive right in front, and then through my infantry, and they didn't spot it until it was 1 grid away. It's 9 am, and there's snow on the ground. Are you kidding me? Turn: https://file.io/Z0oCcirQLfTq Password: 747 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 These issues make me want to drop the games entirely. If this is abstraction, I can make a video game for you in paint. It's abstracted though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 A few turns back I also had a panther snipe my mortar about 150m through trees, the most unbelievable shot I have ever seen in this game, but my infantry can't see the tank until it's 8 meters away. This is a joke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 The only possible explanation is that they thought it was a Russian tank (or they'd just done their whole week's vodka ration).....Incredibly tenuous, massively unlikely, but it's all I've got. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 Then what about the Germans? Did they time travel and smoke anti-gravity meth from the 22nd century? Hitler's special forces detachment maybe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 We should ask JK.....He would know for sure! PS - Keep your eyes open for trucks driven by Jews! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 ehhh not on my thread pls 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 "the file you requested has been deleted" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 IIRC the AI cycle is about 7 seconds. If you tank was moving speedily it's quite possible the Ai didn't see it in that cycle. Sniping through dozens of meters of dense woods is not uncommon. Again... the Ai can spot a pixel-wide gap that the human eye cannot see. CM2 is not WYSIWYG regardless of some claims. One has to bear in mind CM2 is just an inexpensive commercial "off the shelf game" game. A very good game with no obvious competitors. But, it has abstractions like all games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) Sorry uploaded to the wrong website. File.io only has one DL. let me reupload. This website has a captcha but I know it works. http://www.filedropper.com/throughthewoods064 I was tight lipped about the first two incidents, a panther driving right though my guys (Only then did they notice it was there), and the panther shooting through 150mm of trees to kill a mortar (Which he must have seen, it wasn't a target briefly command). But now it's getting straight up ridiculous. Notice the sun is in the panther's eyes, so my guys are approaching in the best way possible. Edited October 27, 2021 by Artkin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 20 minutes ago, Erwin said: Sniping through dozens of meters of dense woods is not uncommon. Again... the Ai can spot a pixel-wide gap that the human eye cannot see. CM2 is not WYSIWYG regardless of some claims. Right but the point is the scenario is so dark that my troops are unable to see a panther 8 meters in front of them at 9am with snow all over the ground. When there's snow on the ground the light reflects absolutely everywhere and the night is pretty illuminated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 If we want to talk about abstractions I can make you a military simulator in MS paint. You just have to believe. Here's some more abstraction for you. My HQ being shot through about 5 trees, about 150 meters behind the treeline. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codreanu Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, Artkin said: If we want to talk about abstractions I can make you a military simulator in MS paint. You just have to believe. Here's some more abstraction for you. My HQ being shot through about 5 trees, about 150 meters behind the treeline. Is that Grieshof Meet and Greet? I had an infantry squad in the complete opposite side of the map spot enemy troops in that wooded hill who were even deeper in the woods than that. I wonder if putting trees on hills messes with spotting, I thought tree branches and the foliage on them was able to block line of sight but maybe it's a little buggy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) So, looked at the turn. One of the Soviet teams spots two of the Panthers immediately and the third once they stop running, and the one that didn't was still running at the end of the turn, but had strong partial spots on all three. Not really sure what the complaint here is. Edit: Just want to say as well that it seems pretty dark Edited October 27, 2021 by SergeantSqook 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 42 minutes ago, Artkin said: If we want to talk about abstractions I can make you a military simulator in MS paint. You just have to believe. Here's some more abstraction for you. My HQ being shot through about 5 trees, about 150 meters behind the treeline. Probably the known bug where the M113 has thermal sights 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Codreanu said: Is that Grieshof Meet and Greet? I had an infantry squad in the complete opposite side of the map spot enemy troops in that wooded hill who were even deeper in the woods than that. I wonder if putting trees on hills messes with spotting, I thought tree branches and the foliage on them was able to block line of sight but maybe it's a little buggy. Yup Grieshof. This shouldn't be happening. They were prone in small foliage the whole turn. They were firing at the M113. Neither of them should have been able to see each other. If anything you would be able to see out of a treeline like that, but not into. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think AK74 makes massive flashes where you're able to spot something like this from 300 meters away in cover like this. 25 minutes ago, SergeantSqook said: So, looked at the turn. One of the Soviet teams spots two of the Panthers immediately and the third once they stop running, and the one that didn't was still running at the end of the turn, but had strong partial spots on all three. Not really sure what the complaint here is. Edit: Just want to say as well that it seems pretty dark But what about the other teams? They are like 1 action square away from the panthers. How in the world did the panther spot these infantry? The previous turns the infantry couldn't see a panther two squares away until it was running them over. The sun is also in the panther's eyes, this should further prohibit spotting in the reverse direction. It seems pretty ridiculous that two panthers got the spot on an infantry squad running behind a treeline, but my infantry who are legit 8 meters away cannot see the tanks. I don't understand how dark it can be at 9am with snow all over the ground. What are we in, the arctic circle? Edited October 27, 2021 by Artkin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, Artkin said: It seems pretty ridiculous that two panthers got the spot on an infantry squad running behind a treeline So I can only comment on the Panthers to a limited degree since I only have the Soviet perspective but; Probably because that doesn't happen, Panther 1 spots Infantry 1 at this point, when the infantry is in the open next to them. It then tells Panther 2 who starts to move too. At the end of the turn, two of the Panthers are aiming for I1 (who are barely in the treeline and are still moving) and P3 hasn't reacted at all. It looks a bit like P1 is aiming at I2, but the hull indicates to me that it's aiming for I2. As for why the guys in the rear don't see the Panthers. Poor RNG? It's dark, they're in trees, they're still moving? You can kind of pick whatever you want. They do all have very strong partial spots though. 33 minutes ago, Artkin said: I don't understand how dark it can be at 9am with snow all over the ground. It is still dark though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, SergeantSqook said: So I can only comment on the Panthers to a limited degree since I only have the Soviet perspective but; Probably because that doesn't happen, Panther 1 spots Infantry 1 at this point, when the infantry is in the open next to them. It then tells Panther 2 who starts to move too. At the end of the turn, two of the Panthers are aiming for I1 (who are barely in the treeline and are still moving) and P3 hasn't reacted at all. It looks a bit like P1 is aiming at I2, but the hull indicates to me that it's aiming for I2. As for why the guys in the rear don't see the Panthers. Poor RNG? It's dark, they're in trees, they're still moving? You can kind of pick whatever you want. They do all have very strong partial spots though. It is still dark though. Yeah they both saw I2 and neither saw I1. Similarly, I2 sees both tanks and I1 sees nothing. But how do the panthers have such great visibility to the rear with the light conditions? Their reaction was simutaneous too. Pretty much instantly both recognized a threat to the rear, I2, who was advancing behind trees. I dont know how so many pairs of eyes could be so oblivious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 The reason I play on Iron not many incidences like this according my perspective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 25 minutes ago, Artkin said: Yeah they both saw I2 and neither saw I1. Similarly, I2 sees both tanks and I1 sees nothing. But how do the panthers have such great visibility to the rear with the light conditions? Their reaction was simutaneous too. Pretty much instantly both recognized a threat to the rear, I2, who was advancing behind trees. I dont know how so many pairs of eyes could be so oblivious. Both the Panthers clearly end the turn targeting I1 though. And there's a full platoon of stationary Panthers, it's hardly unfathomable that one of them gets a spot and passes it on. It's also not to the rear, P1 starts moving first when the Soviets are to it's right, not behind it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 The commander has vision ports of 360⁰ once buttoned up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 That's an old Ausf D, the cupola of most Panthers looks like this: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 6 hours ago, chuckdyke said: The reason I play on Iron not many incidences like this according my perspective. This is on Iron difficulty... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 This seems too ridiculous to me. There are two pairs of eyes inside each tank, who probably spend most of their time looking forward. And they outspot my infantry running toward them from the rear, in the cover of sunlight. The light shining on the optic alone at that angle would totally blind the panthers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 I shouldn't have labeled this a "bug report" but doesn't this seem a little ridiculous? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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