Berlin CMRT Map

[RockinHarry]

Here´s the latest CMRT flavor objects test file in my use ATM. Includes 1m Gridded Grass for both CMRT Summer 1944 (ground grass.bmp) and Spring 1945 (ground grass[spring].bmp) when playing with F&R installed. It allows copying/placing/shifting flavor objects conveniently. Goes to data/z. Make backup of original files in case you´ve modded grass in place already.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8c8t44r1lmdbozf/CMRT_FlavorObjectTestMission.zip?dl=0

For testing the teeth flavor objects grab @Lucky_Strike´s files here https://www.dropbox.com/s/546m07yzky3i5ex/Dragons-teeth_Normal_map_testing.zip?dl=0, then dump "monument1.mdr" file to data/z. Also make backup of original file if needed.

Mission file goes to Scenarios folder. Object manipulation off course only from Editor "deploy force" and "3D map preview" screens. Pre setup forces is german (only) and thus in Play Battle screen select germans. In editor change or switch forces to your liking.

Placement & manipulation of flavor objects (assuming 1m Gridded Grass is in place as a helper):

SHIFT - Click = Push flavor 1m onto next ground mesh node. (view direction dependent. Viewing N-S or E-W works best)

ALT - Click = Grab and place a flavor to desired node. In order to place it exactly one got to Click the 1m node BEFORE the target node.

SHIFT + ALT - Click = Clone copy/paste a placed flavor. The clone will be placed at an offset of 2m right and 2m up, always north. Larger objects have an offset of 4x4m and maybe more.

CNTRL - Click = delete a flavor object.

Click = Rotate a flavor in place. Rotation center is not always where you expect it to be, but is always in steps of 30° (360/12) counter clock wise.

Nature of CM games 1m ground mesh resolution allows only 1 flavor object to be placed on individual nodes. In case of 2 (or more) objects competing with a node, the last placed one "wins", while the other(s) get deleted from the map. There appears to be a "collision zone" for objects beeing very large (>= 3-4m diameter). These can´t be placed on neighboring nodes at 1m distance and the right offset got to be found individually when running into problems. Carts is such an object i.e

So what can be checked and tested with the mission file.

1. Whether any CMRT unit can move into or traverse an action spot filled (partly or fully) with any the available flavor object types (=35).
2. How much do these offer resistance for units movement speeds.
3. Which flavor types get crushed when a vehicle runs over it. When it happens the vehicles center of mass or origin XYZ will determine the deletion of a flavor object. There´s no clearing of full width paths through any cluster of flavor objects.
4. Giving a clue of any the flavor types offering sort of cover and concealment (add enemy units to the file and make test battles).
5. How do the TacAI pathfinding routines interacts with them.
6.... Anything that yet comes to mind.
7. Alternatively drop in any your favorite flavor object mods and test them according to what you need knowing about their ingame behaviors.

Last but not least, a nice training course for on map flavor object manipulation. Keys and Click combos are your best friend. Filling larger areas with flavors goes rather quickly when using the right order of these commands. Same for exact placement of desired flavors. Have fun and report any your findings please.

 

 

[RockinHarry]

1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Here's me farthing guv'...

You´re collector or metal detectorist?

Edited October 20, 2022 by RockinHarry

[RockinHarry]

29 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

With the teeth spaced at 2m do vehicles attempt move through? Also, if using the teeth as flavor we could place real hedgehogs behind them which could put vehicles off trying to traverse them.

From my observations thus far any 1m (or larger) gap is valid either a straight or diagonal one. It´s just a vehicles (and pixeltroopers) center/pivotal point used for determining a valid path. Yep combining flavors and hedgehogs can be done this way. There´s surely a number of more combos that can be tried out yet.

35 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Heavy forest is a good texture but it's just a bit too bushy for my liking. Maybe as an alternative a single, invisible, impassable flavor object every few meters would be enough to deter vehicles. It could be done as a small weed or bush for easy placement.

I´d surely try out something like that. I find using ground textures more convenient, but for fine tuning a map, particularly vs (unwanted) TacAI/AIP movements I´d try everything we found doable ATM. There´s surely more that we´ve not thought of yet.

39 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Also we will have quite a few textures to choose from.

Was also thinking of these larger groups taking up 2x3m or 2x2m could that work?

That's a lot of TNT!

And those big daddy teeth maybe 1x3m?

From what I´ve seen added from various modders I´d say yes. At least for eye candy. When combined with the vehicle NOGO terrain and individually placed flavors I´d say constructing these should be feasable. Would be interesting seeing how the TacAI and AIP will deal with these. Damage (any big HE) and blasting through (NoGo) could provide some issues though. For "blast" command to get work some the viable terrain types (walls, bocage...) need beeing added to the construction somehow.

46 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Big enough to get one of these through ... Westwall p0rn 

Lol that would be gorgeous. If we can get this to work then way different (from westwall) constructions could possibly be made as well. Think of reconstructing some the older fortification types like those around cities of Brest, Metz or Cherbourg maybe. Or Maginot/Stalin line?

52 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Westwall humour

Look at poor old Churchie still wandering around like some silly old duffer ...

Very exciting stuff if you're into dragon's teeth ... 

Good old Monty. Is that (not Homer) Simpson beside him?

[NPye]

8 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Still early doors as footy managers say.

Sniper fires at a German HQ over 500 meters away whilst kneeling and misses. Reloads, and lies down, calming taking out the HQ with his second shot. 

Did you play the Chancellery map?

[JM Stuff]

1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Here's me farthing guv'...

[JM Stuff]

14 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

From my observations thus far any 1m (or larger) gap is valid either a straight or diagonal one. It´s just a vehicles (and pixeltroopers) center/pivotal point used for determining a valid path. Yep combining flavors and hedgehogs can be done this way. There´s surely a number of more combos that can be tried out yet.

I´d surely try out something like that. I find using ground textures more convenient, but for fine tuning a map, particularly vs (unwanted) TacAI/AIP movements I´d try everything we found doable ATM. There´s surely more that we´ve not thought of yet.

From what I´ve seen added from various modders I´d say yes. At least for eye candy. When combined with the vehicle NOGO terrain and individually placed flavors I´d say constructing these should be feasable. Would be interesting seeing how the TacAI and AIP will deal with these. Damage (any big HE) and blasting through (NoGo) could provide some issues though. For "blast" command to get work some the viable terrain types (walls, bocage...) need beeing added to the construction somehow.

Lol that would be gorgeous. If we can get this to work then way different (from westwall) constructions could possibly be made as well. Think of reconstructing some the older fortification types like those around cities of Brest, Metz or Cherbourg maybe. Or Maginot/Stalin line?

Good old Monty. Is that (not Homer) Simpson beside him?

Hopefully the Brits are coming 

JM

Edited October 20, 2022 by JM Stuff

[JM Stuff]

14 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

From my observations thus far any 1m (or larger) gap is valid either a straight or diagonal one. It´s just a vehicles (and pixeltroopers) center/pivotal point used for determining a valid path. Yep combining flavors and hedgehogs can be done this way. There´s surely a number of more combos that can be tried out yet.

I´d surely try out something like that. I find using ground textures more convenient, but for fine tuning a map, particularly vs (unwanted) TacAI/AIP movements I´d try everything we found doable ATM. There´s surely more that we´ve not thought of yet.

From what I´ve seen added from various modders I´d say yes. At least for eye candy. When combined with the vehicle NOGO terrain and individually placed flavors I´d say constructing these should be feasable. Would be interesting seeing how the TacAI and AIP will deal with these. Damage (any big HE) and blasting through (NoGo) could provide some issues though. For "blast" command to get work some the viable terrain types (walls, bocage...) need beeing added to the construction somehow.

Lol that would be gorgeous. If we can get this to work then way different (from westwall) constructions could possibly be made as well. Think of reconstructing some the older fortification types like those around cities of Brest, Metz or Cherbourg maybe. Or Maginot/Stalin line?

Good old Monty. Is that (not Homer) Simpson beside him?

Guy's the new module from BFC CMFBB is not far, the Brit are coming

Hope they will include some news stuffs that you and Harry and more... are working on.

JM

[JM Stuff]

14 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Here's me farthing guv'...

No chance Lucky, @Probus was the first.

JM

[RockinHarry]

21 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

Guy's the new module from BFC CMFBB is not far, the Brit are coming

Hope they will include some news stuffs that you and Harry and more... are working on.

JM

Sure about that? That would be great. It´s top of my wishlist for years already, before anything else. Operation Blackcock and Veritable I´m coming!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blackcock

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Veritable

Edited October 20, 2022 by RockinHarry

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

Last but not least, a nice training course for on map flavor object manipulation. Keys and Click combos are your best friend. Filling larger areas with flavors goes rather quickly when using the right order of these commands. Same for exact placement of desired flavors. Have fun and report any your findings please.

This is great Harry. I will be testing everything on here to see how pixeltruppen, normal objects and flavor objects interact. Thanks so much!  You is da 

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

You´re collector or metal detectorist?

No, it's a Shaston Farthing from 1665 (image from the web). I'm originally from there, so this is my payment for copyright licence to @Warts 'n' all who was C-in-C of the New Model Army back about then, figured it was probably about a week's wages, so pretty good recompense I'd say.

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

There´s surely a number of more combos that can be tried out yet.

Absolutely, and your map will make finding them much easier.

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

I´d surely try out something like that. I find using ground textures more convenient, but for fine tuning a map, particularly vs (unwanted) TacAI/AIP movements I´d try everything we found doable ATM.

Certainly will be making a few little treats.

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

From what I´ve seen added from various modders I´d say yes. At least for eye candy. When combined with the vehicle NOGO terrain and individually placed flavors I´d say constructing these should be feasable. Would be interesting seeing how the TacAI and AIP will deal with these. Damage (any big HE) and blasting through (NoGo) could provide some issues though. For "blast" command to get work some the viable terrain types (walls, bocage...) need beeing added to the construction somehow.

Again, also using the other invisible plant flavor objects could really help. Does the engine ignore the size of a flavor object that is based on an original flavor object that would occupy 1m. This could help us to manipulate the engine so that we can build larger objects that can sit closer together but which can then be joined, as it were, to create a more complex group without them disappearing - I know what I mean 

It's interesting that we could potentially use a blast command to clear some obstacles that the game does not allow for normally if we cheated the engine. Hedgehogs should probably be destructible whereas dragon's teeth obviously take a lot of explosives judging by how many are still intact.

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

Lol that would be gorgeous. If we can get this to work then way different (from westwall) constructions could possibly be made as well. Think of reconstructing some the older fortification types like those around cities of Brest, Metz or Cherbourg maybe. Or Maginot/Stalin line?

Yes, yes. I really think we could potentially do more with this stuff. Some smart buildings and crafty use of flavor object obstacles could go a long way to making a set of very useable defensive works. We'll be rolling out the Brummbärs and Sturmtigers!

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

Good old Monty. Is that (not Homer) Simpson beside him?

Yes - caption to the previous one with Churchill:

Churchill and Commanders visit the Western Front on March 4, 1945. Winston Churchill walked in the 'dragon's teeth' of the Siegfried Line near Aachen, with him, L-R: Field Marshall Montgomery, Sir Allen Brooke, unidentified U.S. Officer, Churchill, and Lt. General William Simpson of 9th American Army.

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, JM Stuff said:

Guy's the new module from BFC CMFBB is not far, the Brit are coming

Hope they will include some news stuffs that you and Harry and more... are working on.

JM

I really hope that the next FB module will include the British and Commonwealth forces, and is not too US-centric. It'll also need stuff like LVT, DUKW and Buffalo for operations like the Battle of the Scheldt and Operation Plunder.

BF can have my teeth if it'll help speed it up  (in exchange for some secret sauce of course).

1 hour ago, JM Stuff said:

No chance Lucky, @Probus was the first.

JM

Does not compute ... Ne comprend pas ...

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

It´s top of my wishlist for years already, before anything else. Operation Blackcock and Veritable I´m coming!

Ohh yes!

[JM Stuff]

Nigel just some  input about your battlefield and infos about Berlin, I saw that one of the last fighters, were a part of Charlemagne Division, here is a video.

Do you know, if somebody was making already a mod of this unit?

 

JM

Edited October 20, 2022 by JM Stuff

[JM Stuff]

7 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

 

Does not compute ... Ne comprend pas ...

 

You present ancient coins that you found, ...while building the minefield and teeth obstacles.
But Probus already has a similar sign as avatar so he is more rich as you...

 

 

 

 

 

ok was a bad joke.

I m gone

 

JM

[Warts 'n' all]

3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

No, it's a Shaston Farthing from 1665 (image from the web). I'm originally from there, so this is my payment for copyright licence to @Warts 'n' all who was C-in-C of the New Model Army back about then, figured it was probably about a week's wages, so pretty good recompense I'd say.

Whilst it is always good for the ego to get a mention on these pages. The good Lord above would like it pointed out that I had been abiding with him since 1658. So, that coin is just a tad after my time.

[Warts 'n' all]

4 hours ago, NPye said:

Did you play the Chancellery map?

Yes, I was giving my slight reworking of it a go, having removed a lot of the private cars. Which I entitled "Neues Reichskanzlei". And I was enjoying it up until my reinforcements arrived, and my flyboys started attacking my Set-up zone. I was not impressed.

[NPye]

Heres the train sets in situ. Does it matter about the engine????

[NPye]

2 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I was not impressed.

lol. Not much I can do about that as we have no control over our own Air Units......

[NPye]

6 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

Do you know, if somebody was making already a mod of this unit?

 

Not yet but I have them in a scenario and i have a panther in their camo coming....Cheers

[Lucky_Strike]

6 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

You present ancient coins that you found, ...while building the minefield and teeth obstacles.
But Probus already has a similar sign as avatar so he is more rich as you...
ok was a bad joke.

I m gone

JM

Hahah not that bad my friend, sometimes things get lost in translation ...

7 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

Nigel just some  input about your battlefield and infos about Berlin, I saw that one of the last fighters, were a part of Charlemagne Division, here is a video.

Do you know, if somebody was making already a mod of this unit?

I don't think there's much to distinguish them from regular Waffen SS in terms of their combat ready appearance. Very well regarded book about them titled For Europe by Robert Forbes.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Lucky_Strike

[Lucky_Strike]

4 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Whilst it is always good for the ego to get a mention on these pages. The good Lord above would like it pointed out that I had been abiding with him since 1658. So, that coin is just a tad after my time.

For the widow Wart then ...

[Warts 'n' all]

3 hours ago, NPye said:

lol. Not much I can do about that as we have no control over our own Air Units......

No, I remember the same thing happening in a Stalingrad mini-campaign some years back.

The first few flyboys on the scene attacked the German positions near the Kanzlei, but this one decided a large mass of Russians would make a better target. In my experience planes and built-up areas don't mix.

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

No, I remember the same thing happening in a Stalingrad mini-campaign some years back.

The first few flyboys on the scene attacked the German positions near the Kanzlei, but this one decided a large mass of Russians would make a better target. In my experience planes and built-up areas don't mix.

Do you play this vs. german AIP or PBEM?

[Warts 'n' all]

31 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Do you play this vs. german AIP or PBEM?

I was playing as the Russians against the AI. Maybe if a few more tweaks can be made I might give it another go. I'm not sure my editing skills are up to the job.

[RockinHarry]

12 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

This is great Harry. I will be testing everything on here to see how pixeltruppen, normal objects and flavor objects interact. Thanks so much!  You is da 

Let me know if you need that new model army map expanded with other stuff. As you´d likely noticed I´d mostly placed the first object from each flavor category with a number of exceptions where I placed 2-3 maybe. But glad it´s of some use for you.

12 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

No, it's a Shaston Farthing from 1665 (image from the web). I'm originally from there, so this is my payment for copyright licence to @Warts 'n' all who was C-in-C of the New Model Army back about then, figured it was probably about a week's wages, so pretty good recompense I'd say.

Okay, some englishmen insider talking then. Beyond a german´s grasp it seems.

12 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Again, also using the other invisible plant flavor objects could really help. Does the engine ignore the size of a flavor object that is based on an original flavor object that would occupy 1m. This could help us to manipulate the engine so that we can build larger objects that can sit closer together but which can then be joined, as it were, to create a more complex group without them disappearing - I know what I mean 

Hm... from my believe a flavor objects "size" is not defined by its actual geometry but rather through bounding boxes as most likely beeing defined by accessible META data in Blender. Some my messing around with META 2 years back indicated this. If we figure out this data your mentioned idea could "maybe" get to work to some extend. Bits of a difficult affair then. If you i.e check the cart flavor objects on map placement and turning properties you get the idea. And I also believe there´s META data dealing with an objects placement, as well as its pivot point and maybe more.

13 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

It's interesting that we could potentially use a blast command to clear some obstacles that the game does not allow for normally if we cheated the engine. Hedgehogs should probably be destructible whereas dragon's teeth obviously take a lot of explosives judging by how many are still intact.

Yup. My latest testing on new model army map. Create a breach by means of a breach team on following terrain combo:

1. Place terrain tiles (something vehicles can move through normally)
2. Place flavors (teeth in this case)
3. Place Hedgehogs/Teeth mod
4. Place wire fences (this got to be last step!)

Here´s results:

Breach team preparing the job.

KABOOM

A job done

Come on. It´s all cleared now.

Thanks.

As can be seen effects are bits of an overkill. Beside making a 5 meter wide gap in the cattle fence, all off the flavors and hedgehogs/teeth got removed as well. lol So doesn´t quite look like the optimal solution. But it "works". Basically. 

13 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yes, yes. I really think we could potentially do more with this stuff. Some smart buildings and crafty use of flavor object obstacles could go a long way to making a set of very useable defensive works. We'll be rolling out the Brummbärs and Sturmtigers!

My latest test setup included the Wespe 105mm (see above) and it´s capable doing the clearing job already. But by nature of the target terrain order it needs a couple shots to hit the desired action spot at all. "When" it hits then usual between 1-3 flavors get "removed" at average. That for flavors. Haven´t tested on hedgehog obstacles/teeth yet, but should likely work this way as well.