Berlin CMRT Map

[NPye]

20 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

CM - Train simulator Now what´s yet needed is animated wheels and lots of steam (or smoke).

Ha ha wouldn't that be great, also carriages linked and move in sync with engine....lol

[NPye]

2 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Although ale has been taken since the battle ended.

Glug glug Awesome... glad you liked...

[Warts 'n' all]

Just to clarify.

Objectives held

Germans 4 out of 5 = 2000 points

Noddlehead 6 out of 6 = 2900 points

Casualties 

Germans - KIA 343 WIA 193 MIA 32 Tanks 0 AFV 0 Soft skinned vehicles 3

Noddlehead - KIA 54 WIA 38 Tanks 3 AFV 3

[NPye]

9 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Just to clarify.

Objectives held

Germans 4 out of 5 = 2000 points

Noddlehead 6 out of 6 = 2900 points

Casualties 

Germans - KIA 343 WIA 193 MIA 32 Tanks 0 AFV 0 Soft skinned vehicles 3

Noddlehead - KIA 54 WIA 38 Tanks 3 AFV 3

Bloody Hell you must be awesome player... Only lost 54 kia... I can't get near that and I built it...was it to easy????

[Lucky_Strike]

8 hours ago, NPye said:

This has got to be a CM first a complete map of Anhalter Bahnhof area in Berlin, parts of the station buildings have elements of the original building, we have a goods yard, 2 turnstiles and 20 plus tracks all leading to the station, we have 100s of carriages, opposite the station entrance we have the famous Europahaus on Saarlandstraße which leads to Potsdamer Platz which in turn leads to the New Reichs Chancellery and the Reichstag... The Soviets grand prize. The attacking force will be from Konevs 1st Ukrainian Front, and he is in a hurry to beat Zhukov to the Reichstag. So clearing the station and surrounding area is a must for him and his troops must do it quickly if they are to have any chance of getting to the Reichstag first. The Race is on...

Big thanks to Lucky strike for getting the Train from 3d to in-game. Cheers

Wowwa, that is a real labour of love. Looks fantastic. I think you're right to keep it more intact, the game doesn't really handle railways very well, this looks better without loads of destruction. I think you have excelled yourself this time!!!

[RockinHarry]

9 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yes, that should be possible. We move stuff all the time we just need to remember to apply the transforms and rotations, then we should be fine. Wouldn't take a few minutes to test, worst case is it won't export or does something like appear in the map surround, unreachable by anything ...

Yep. Worth a try for sure. As said for me personally just eye candy stuff without providing some real in game FX is of little worth for me and my projects. So I´ll likely stick with the more smaller things like 1 to 4 meters square size ones.

9 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Animated wheels  this is definitely way above my pay grade ...

whose not? 

9 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Hehe, how many times have you gone to look at old notes only to wonder what on earth you were writing about?

Yes, as everything in 3D world is described as XYZ then I think it's very likely the triples describe this. Some may describe HSL or RGB colour values - more triplets - could be related to stuff like transparency and reflectivity which CAN be manipulated to an extent in Blender AND seen in game.

I can't remember if you said - did you try changing the model bounding boxes in Blender to see if these have an impact in game?

Hehe... yeah almost. Most things I´ve still in my head, but forgot I´d written up some more detailed stuff. Also got to check many my older forum posts for a refresher. Most things are in fact not new, but were rather little discussed in detail (like here).

Yep, I bits of tweaked some the Unk1 & 2 Meta data triplets for some indi building and a wall of one 8x8m modular house. Thus far with little noticeable effect. Had to do explicit texture assignments in Blender to get them exported and then tested in game. I´s hoping to find building walls thickness and their likely cover value. But couldn´t observe any effect. So if these are bounding boxes they likely have a different purpose that I´ve to learn about yet. Building cover seems hard coded I believe now. Buildings that don´t have  a window on any the facades is fairly good cover and mostly impenetrable vs. small arms fire. But it all changes when there´s at least one window or other opening on same wall. Now every square cm of the wall is crappy cover at once. Wondering what weird cover model is beeing used in the game.

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by RockinHarry

[Lucky_Strike]

4 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Just don't tell the Limeys that Persil originated in Germany. They will mess their whites.

Keeps your whites whiter than white ...

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, NPye said:

I can't get near that and I built it...

LOL Ain't that always the way.

[RockinHarry]

8 hours ago, NPye said:

This has got to be a CM first a complete map of Anhalter Bahnhof area in Berlin, parts of the station buildings have elements of the original building, we have a goods yard, 2 turnstiles and 20 plus tracks all leading to the station, we have 100s of carriages, opposite the station entrance we have the famous Europahaus on Saarlandstraße which leads to Potsdamer Platz which in turn leads to the New Reichs Chancellery and the Reichstag... The Soviets grand prize. The attacking force will be from Konevs 1st Ukrainian Front, and he is in a hurry to beat Zhukov to the Reichstag. So clearing the station and surrounding area is a must for him and his troops must do it quickly if they are to have any chance of getting to the Reichstag first. The Race is on...

Big thanks to Lucky strike for getting the Train from 3d to in-game. Cheers

 

 

Looks great! That´ll surely be quite an interesting and intense battle. If you´ve something ready and need a playtester let me know!

2 hours ago, NPye said:

Ha ha wouldn't that be great, also carriages linked and move in sync with engine....lol

Definitely.

Edited October 30, 2022 by RockinHarry

[Lucky_Strike]

5 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Building cover seems hard coded I believe now. Buildings that don´t have  a window on any the facades is fairly good cover and mostly impentrable vs. small arms fire. But it all changes when there´s at least one window or other opening on same wall. Now every square cm of the wall is crappy cover at once. Wondering what weird cover model is beeing used in the game.

Yeah, you previously said that the window apertures are actually much bigger than what we see (to prevent the pixeltruppen from clustering around the) so from your other observations it seems that by having these enlarged apertures the building walls then provide very poor cover as well. This would explain a lot of other issues that folks have noticed in the past such as vulnerability to HE and being spotted too easily. It's no wonder that BF are having to constantly revise the mechanics of these things. Probably started as a simple solution to the clustering around apertures issue but ended up as a very difficult problem to solve and not easy to unpick once embedded in the game. 

[Warts 'n' all]

6 hours ago, NPye said:

Bloody Hell you must be awesome player... Only lost 54 kia... I can't get near that and I built it...was it to easy????

I think playing against the AI is probably easier than playing against a human opponent. In addition, the German counter-attacks came at just the right time for me. I won't go into too much detail regarding them for people who haven't played it. Also, because the Victory locations are so small you can grab them just by bypassing many of the Germans.

[RockinHarry]

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yeah, you previously said that the window apertures are actually much bigger than what we see (to prevent the pixeltruppen from clustering around the) so from your other observations it seems that by having these enlarged apertures the building walls then provide very poor cover as well. This would explain a lot of other issues that folks have noticed in the past such as vulnerability to HE and being spotted too easily. It's no wonder that BF are having to constantly revise the mechanics of these things. Probably started as a simple solution to the clustering around apertures issue but ended up as a very difficult problem to solve and not easy to unpick once embedded in the game.

Yes could well be. If pixeltroopers go prone (hide, pinned...) under windows/apertures they´re relatively "safe" from direct small arms fire. But ONLY when beeing directly targeted or area targeted on the building itself. If putting area target fire in front of the building (at 20-40m distance), even prone lying infantry gets slaughtered within few minutes. Allmost all shots do "penetrate" whatever "wall" is taken for these calculations. At least counts for german MG42 where the inbuilt artificial inaccuracy gets most the bullets flying high and thus hitting the building near ground level with grazing fire (and prone lying pixeltroopers behind wall). Counts the same for prone lying infantry at the back of the building (away from enemy small arms fires). Area target method might be less effective for i.e  the cal 30 "sniper" lmg and similar.

So to make a buildings first floor halfway safe again one got to place some +1m ditch locked terrain in front or intersecting with it. Then pixeltroopers can survive the first few minutes under enemy fire, in case they stay mostly prone and pop up for return fires only briefly.

[Lucky_Strike]

9 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Yes could well be. If pixeltroopers go prone (hide, pinned...) under windows/apertures they´re relatively "safe" from direct small arms fire. But ONLY when beeing directly targeted or area targeted on the building itself. If putting area target fire in front of the building (at 20-40m distance), even prone lying infantry gets slaughtered within few minutes. Allmost all shots do "penetrate" whatever "wall" is taken for these calculations. At least counts for german MG42 where the inbuilt artificial inaccuracy gets most the bullets flying high and thus hitting the building near ground level with grazing fire (and prone lying pixeltroopers behind wall). Counts the same for prone lying infantry at the back of the building (away from enemy small arms fires). Area target method might be less effective for i.e  the cal 30 "sniper" lmg and similar.

So to make a buildings first floor halfway safe again one got to place some +1m ditch locked terrain in front or intersecting with it. Then pixeltroopers can survive the first few minutes under enemy fire, in case they stay mostly prone and pop up for return fires only briefly.

Hehe, or just stay away from buildings and find the nearest ditch/bocage.

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Hehe, or just stay away from buildings and find the nearest ditch/bocage.

That would likely be the better option many times. Pixeltroopers in buildings are good for some surprise fire but when the enemy gets fire superiority on them, they better move out to hopefully better cover. At least as long as they don´t get shaken or panic. Then they´re . Thanks to BFC new all or nothing routines. (yep...retreating towards enemy is bad as well, but staying in a building and then get them all killed or surrender ain´t any better)

[NPye]

The Zoological Flak Tower, set in the Tier Garden Berlin, this tower caused both the soviets and the British a lot of trouble... The Soviets 1st attack on the Reichstag was completely stopped with the help of this tower 128mm Flak/AT guns and the British found it really hard to demolish... lol The tower had commanding views that spanned for miles across this sector of Berlin... I know I can't replicate this correctly (as I cant place any 88mm or smaller flak guns on the roof) but it's still a formidable obstruction for the Soviets. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by NPye

[Artkin]

1 hour ago, NPye said:

The Zoological Flak Tower, set in the Tier Garden Berlin, this tower caused both the soviets and the British a lot of trouble... The Soviets 1st attack on the Reichstag was completely stopped with the help of this tower 128mm Flak/AT guns and the British found it really hard to demolish... lol The tower had commanding views that spanned for miles across this sector of Berlin... I know I can't replicate this correctly (as I cant place any 88mm or smaller flak guns on the roof) but it's still a formidable obstruction for the Soviets. 

You can wrap the building with high walls if you want to give it a little more protection. I saw the technique used in an official scenario in CMFB. Sadly only works for the ground floor 

[RockinHarry]

Some fun with flak towers in CMFB.

Pity the mod buildings in the game are such crap cover.

[Artkin]

HOWWWWW????????? 

I believe it's possible to get flat roofs in cmrt. I imagine the same is possible in cmfb. I think I've only seen it on converted maps. 

[NPye]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

Pity the mod buildings in the game are such crap cover.

Know what you mean but in this case you can't get near it, it can see all movement, i placed 4 spotters in there with 88mm and 128mm Artillery batteries, plus it was staffed by 300 personnel (in reality) I put a company of elite Luftwaffe Company in there. It just pounded the Soviets to Hell. 88mm on the ground to deal with tanks plus wire and trenches with another company covering the ground... Even the troops on the balconies didn't suffer to bad, maybe because the angle is very steep to fire on. Interesting at the least and shows probably why the Soviets bypassed these towers as to assault one would inflict huge casualties, but there would be a price to pay for not knocking it out, this tower in the Zoo Gardens knocked out many tanks when the Soviets stormed Moltke Bridge and the Reichstag... plus however many Russian Planes... and infantry. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by NPye

[NPye]

3 hours ago, Artkin said:

You can wrap the building with high walls if you want to give it a little more protection. I saw the technique used in an official scenario in CMFB. Sadly only works for the ground floor 

Ta not a bad idea just leaving the doorway free...Cheers

[NPye]

7 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Pity the mod buildings in the game are such crap cover.

How did u place those 88s up there?

[Vacillator]

8 hours ago, NPye said:

Even the troops on the balconies didn't suffer to bad, maybe because the angle is very steep to fire on. Interesting at the least and shows probably why the Soviets bypassed these towers as to assault one would inflict huge casualties

I remember we were discussing this a while ago - could they not have just blasted the top with artillery?  A few hundred barrels dropping 152mm or bigger would surely have limited the lifespan of the 128s?   Or a bit of rocket action, who cares about accuracy in Berlin...

[RockinHarry]

11 hours ago, Artkin said:

HOWWWWW????????? 

I believe it's possible to get flat roofs in cmrt. I imagine the same is possible in cmfb. I think I've only seen it on converted maps. 

 

4 hours ago, NPye said:

How did u place those 88s up there?

It´s bits of a Blender hack then combined with one the known placement cheats in CM editor. Only tried in CMFB ATM.

 

1. In Blender move the objects full hierarchy up 30-40m. Export.

2. In CM place the edited flak in intended action spot.

3. in map editor place the building "on top" of where you know the flak is.

4. open 3D deploy editor and see results.

5. exit deploy screen then go to 3D map preview. "Destroy" roof and upper story of newly placed (modular) building with SHIFT +ALT Click. (that for making the "flat" roof looks) Add balconies if desired (SHIFT+CNTRL Click) and change facades + windows to your liking. Exit 3D preview.

6. Enter deploy screen again and see if the Flak drops or dropped down to next valid level. Should be the one below the destroyed roof then. Check out various face command effects. You can get the Flak beeing placed on the balcony i.e

7. If everything "sticks", save mission and do a play test.

8. If play test does not reveal any issues, replace the "hacked" MDR with original one, or simply delete it from data/z folder. Have fun with flak towers.

That for cover value of even a 16x16 type mod building. But the situation was bits of unfair I got to admit.

Edit: might share the "hacked" 88Flak MDR as well. Think it´s version where I removed the gun carriage. Use at your own peril. https://www.dropbox.com/s/iq4m3ecya1bskzg/flak36.7z?dl=0

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by RockinHarry

[Artkin]

@RockinHarry Ah this was my first thought after seeing the smoke on the 1st floor instead of up top. But then you matched the smoke too. Awesome stuff. 

Can this be done by mod tag? That would be ideal, and practical

Edited October 31, 2022 by Artkin

[RockinHarry]

13 minutes ago, Artkin said:

@RockinHarry Ah this was my first thought after seeing the smoke on the 1st floor instead of up top. But then you matched the smoke too. Awesome stuff. 

Can this be done by mod tag? That would be ideal, and practical

Yup the kicked up dust is still at ground level. Mod tag what for? Haven´t tested yet, but I guess should work for any the given cases. But if the Flak tower placement sticks, you can go along with the original MDR. Normal placements "should" work as usual, but haven´t tested yet.

Edit: That was a "just for fun" hack only. The simple mission setup worked, but that doesn´t mean it works in any different setup (and CM game) as well.

Edited October 31, 2022 by RockinHarry