KL2004 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 What are the top three forms of concealment for AFV's in Black Sea? Are they equally useful against air attack? I am mostly concerned with getting vehicles into safe spaces to prepare for enemy air. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Under trees, in the shadow of buildings (the taller the better), under a dense cloud of smoke.... I don't think there is any sure-fire way to conceal them, but those ideas might improve the odds a little for you. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2004 Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 Assuming those are in order of effective, thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Trees often have the advantage of detonating an incoming round even if you have been spotted (depending on what's been fired at you). Buildings have the advantage of being in a 'keyhole' position, the attacker can only get at you from a certain approach angle fired from a certain trajectory. Smoke might be more difficult. Often you don't have a warning of an attack. I've never tried popping a smoke cloud at the sound of a passing aircraft before. It *might* be a great idea, I just haven't tried it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 This is good info for CMSF as well - where there is no AA capability at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Try to snuggle them between two buildings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 KL2004, In the only game where I came under air attack I was behind a building and in the shade mostly, with the building between my Bradley and the ground attack threat axis. First pass by a brace of Su-25s cost me a Bradley from a bomb. Direct hit. That said, my Bradley was exposed relative to my rear area. Believe What you've been told is sound, but don't mistake it for any kind of guarantee. It's unfortunate the game doesn't model camouflage nets, placing debris on the AFV, etc. . Believe BFC should give some thought to some sort of hiding modifier for vehicles in position which haven't moved. Here's an example of what I mean using a German Panzer IV/H. Image Credit: WW II German Photo Hornisse/Nashorn in Italy Image Credit: Bundesarchiv via Lone Sentry .com Though this is from WW II, when facing Eyeball, Mark I, the principles are sound to this day. FM 5-20 Camouflage: Basic Principleshttps://archive.org/stream/Fm5-201944#page/n0/mode/2up Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Just as an aside to show some of the limitations of camouflage, a couple of incidents from WW II. During the last year or so of the war, canny Allied pilots would notice such things as tracks terminating under a haystack, which was a favorite Wehrmacht hiding place for a tank. They would bomb or shoot it up with sometimes spectacular results. Similarly, if they noticed tracks entering a woods and not re-emerging, they would bomb the crap out of the woods and usually got satisfying secondaries. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2004 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Haha, it gets complicated more than necessary for the game I'm sure I have experimented a bit, and under trees and not moving at all seems to be the best bet. Enemy air seems to get an angle on vehicles between buildings without much problem. Super limited sample size of experimenting, but there you have it. Thank you for all the feedback. It's much appreciated. Off to conquer the Ukraine... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I recall a very unfortunate incident in one of my early games where I rushed most of a combat team across a large open area without first deploying stinger teams to cover the move. Sure enough the company was caught in flagrante delicto by a pair of Russian Hinds. With ugly results as you might expect! Needless to say I learned a valuabl tactical lesson from that one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Obviously, against ground vehicles good hull down positions behind hill crests are best.Note the new hull down command 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) On 6.9.2017 at 7:17 AM, John Kettler said: KL2004, In the only game where I came under air attack I was behind a building and in the shade mostly, with the building between my Bradley and the ground attack threat axis. First pass by a brace of Su-25s cost me a Bradley from a bomb. Direct hit. That said, my Bradley was exposed relative to my rear area. Believe What you've been told is sound, but don't mistake it for any kind of guarantee. It's unfortunate the game doesn't model camouflage nets, placing debris on the AFV, etc. . Believe BFC should give some thought to some sort of hiding modifier for vehicles in position which haven't moved. Here's an example of what I mean using a German Panzer IV/H. Image Credit: WW II German Photo Hornisse/Nashorn in Italy Image Credit: Bundesarchiv via Lone Sentry .com Though this is from WW II, when facing Eyeball, Mark I, the principles are sound to this day. FM 5-20 Camouflage: Basic Principleshttps://archive.org/stream/Fm5-201944#page/n0/mode/2up Regards, John Kettler We here in germany still put much emphasis on camoing our combat vehicles. Recent pics from our Panzergrenadiers deployed to Lithuania: Edited September 7, 2017 by QuiGon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Cut greenery needs to be replaced frequently, maybe even daily. It wilts and begins to change color quickly and a non-conforming lump of something will arouse curiosity and provoke closer examination, possibly by fire. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 5 hours ago, QuiGon said: We here in germany still put much emphasis on camoing our combat vehicles. Recent pics from our Panzergrenadiers deployed to Lithuania: Interesting photos. Thanks for posting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2004 Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 On 9/7/2017 at 5:06 AM, QuiGon said: We here in germany still put much emphasis on camoing our combat vehicles. Recent pics from our Panzergrenadiers deployed to Lithuania: Much thanks for the photographs. A lot of effort goes into that. No doubt infantry will have a harder time spotting stationary AFV's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Saw this on Youtube a while back (good channel) and IIRC it will be of interest here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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