Damage Bug

[user1000]

Some vehicles, I noticed in both combat mission normandy AND blitzkrieg don't have engine listed under damageable parts under wrench/damage icon for the vehicle.

[akd]

Example?

[user1000]

I will try to find them

 

EDIT oddly enough I can't find it now, I could have sworn a tank that was a sherman jumbo had no engine text

Edited February 1, 2017 by user1000

[user1000]

for some reason engine text  just disappears when tracks are out, ill try to find one that isn't immobile

[user1000]

no engine listed for this guy but he is mobile

Edited February 1, 2017 by user1000

[IICptMillerII]

I have noticed this as well, but I think it is a limitation of the UI. The engine of this tank can still be damaged/destroyed just because you cannot see it listed in the UI. If it were to be damaged/destroyed, then text would appear for it. This minor issue is more prevalent in the modern games, where single vehicles have a lot more sub systems to them. Not all of them are readily listed in the UI, but they are still modeled and can be damaged/destroyed. When they are, they are then listed in the UI damage table. 

[sburke]

just a thought - are there more than 9 items that can be listed and therefore overrun the UI?  I have never really paid attention for anything other than what is actually damaged.

[Rinaldi]

8 minutes ago, sburke said:

just a thought - are there more than 9 items that can be listed and therefore overrun the UI?  I have never really paid attention for anything other than what is actually damaged.

Precisely this. The Sherman has a lot of subsystems, and you can see this in the modern titles especially. UI will do a triage and bump up the most damaged UI to the top of the list. Which makes perfect sense.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Rinaldi

[user1000]

ok cool I thought they may be invulnerable to that area. If the ui is out of room what about a scroll bar? You could add turret jam to it.

Edited February 2, 2017 by user1000

[c3k]

Turret jam is covered by Weapon Control, I think. If you get Weapon Control with a red X, I don't think the turret can traverse. (Nor, of course, can the gun fire.)

[Michael Emrys]

12 hours ago, sburke said:

just a thought - are there more than 9 items that can be listed and therefore overrun the UI?

Yep. I began noticing this a couple of years ago. At first it puzzled and confused me until I figured it out. What I saw was items appearing then disappearing off the list. IIRC they would disappear off the list when some item that was not previously on the list was damaged and needed to be included. The inclusion of a scroll bar would be nice, but I'm not sure how much work it would take.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

That would be one small scroll bar. The way it is now is a very slight pain. My vote would be use the time to do something else more important. Like create a throw grenades command.

(That's a joke - I'm not being serious - look at my sig for what I would really like to see the time used for)

Edited February 2, 2017 by IanL

[akd]

AFAIK, the chance that you can have a vehicle that is still operational, yet has so many destroyed sub-systems that some are getting bumped off the page is pretty slim.  If it not's destroyed, does it really matter if you can't see it?  Surely we don't need to be reassured that a tank has an engine in it if it does not show on the list?

Edited February 2, 2017 by akd

[Thewood1]

That might be more likely to not be an issue in WW2, but in modern AFVs, there are lots of subsystems.  This was requested by users many times in the CMSF days.  In modern CM games, it is sometimes important to see what capabilities your AFV has, like thermal sights.  If your AFV, like a BMP-3, has multiple weapon systems, you'll likely not be able see more than just a few subsystems. There is no way to tell if something drops below the 9 item line.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Thewood1

[A Canadian Cat]

But the point is damaged stuff goes to the top of the list. The only time a damaged system would not be shown if it was the 10th damaged system. I think I can asses the combat operational capabilities of an AFV with nine X'ed out systems - if it can move get it out of there, if it cannot move abandon it.

[Thewood1]

But there are times you need to know some of the capabilities below the line.  How do you do that?

[Michael Emrys]

31 minutes ago, Thewood1 said:

But there are times you need to know some of the capabilities below the line.

Why? If it is below the line, it is working. Or are you saying that the only way you have of knowing what capabilities and vulnerabilities your vehicle has is to see them on the list?

Michael

[IICptMillerII]

7 hours ago, Thewood1 said:

But there are times you need to know some of the capabilities below the line.  How do you do that?

Each game comes with a manual specific to the units/forces the game covers. Its basically an encyclopedia that covers everything in the game. So if you want to know about the weapons/capabilities/munitions/etc of a unit, just pull up the manual and search for it. 

[c3k]

Yes, it would be nice to scroll the systems list. But, as IanL pointed out, damaged systems percolate to the top. Nine destroyed or degraded systems tell me that the tank is less of a combat vehicle and more of a battered pile of metal.

If there are MORE than nine degraded systems, then I have options to find out the information. Mobility is shown by the color of the base: yellow, and whether it is tracks, transmission, or engine, the tank is immobile. If I don't have both  Target and Target Light order buttons, then I've lost my Main Gun (If I just have Target.) If I have neither...I have none. Radios and networked comms can be shown by the command UI. Smoke? Well, I've got to look inside the individual launch canisters and see how many are there.

Now, that leaves some items I don't know about. However, let's think about this: if I have NINE busted systems and I can tell if the guns work or whether the tank is mobile and whether or not comms work, what really is the point? (Yes, I'd also like to know, but "like" is not the same as "need".) The tank, at that point, is either about to be destroyed (if the same enemy units which created that damage still have it in LOS), or it is not a factor for the rest of the battle. (It is hors de combat if it has 9 damaged systems.) My best bet would be to move it back to friendly lines and either get/keep the points for it, or hope I can repair it in a campaign. The LAST thing I would do is try to move it into another firefight. Hell, I'd rather dismount the crew and have them use their sidearms at that point.

 

[Thewood1]

OK, so take a look at the manual for Black Sea.  Does the Tunguska as represented in game have thermals, Night Vision, APS, etc.?  It is an extreme example, but similar, to a lesser extent, to some BMPs, Bradleys, T-90s, etc.

 

Again, not that much of an issue in WW2 games, but all the way back to CMSF, it was  a guessing game at times on things like night vision or Thermals until you became more familiar with them.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Thewood1

[Thewood1]

16 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

...Or are you saying that the only way you have of knowing what capabilities and vulnerabilities your vehicle has is to see them on the list?

Michael

Ahhh...isn't that what my comment you quoted said?

[Michael Emrys]

2 minutes ago, Thewood1 said:

Ahhh...isn't that what my comment you quoted said?

One might have guessed as much, which is why I asked what I did in the way that I did. What wasn't clear to me was why you felt you needed to know that stuff. If it wasn't in the visible part of the list, then you might assume that whatever it is, it is working fine and you don't need to concern yourself about it.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

Same here. I didn't take it as wanting a list of systems / capabilities but as a way of telling how combat capabile a vehicle was.

[Thewood1]

" But there are times you need to know some of the capabilities below the line.  How do you do that? "

Really, that line isn't clear that I wanted to know capabilities listed below the line?

So know that you guys have noodled that out, how do I do it?

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, Thewood1 said:

" But there are times you need to know some of the capabilities below the line.  How do you do that? "

Really, that line isn't clear that I wanted to know capabilities listed below the line?

So know that you guys have noodled that out, how do I do it?

 

14 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

Each game comes with a manual specific to the units/forces the game covers. Its basically an encyclopedia that covers everything in the game. So if you want to know about the weapons/capabilities/munitions/etc of a unit, just pull up the manual and search for it. 

There's your answer.

Michael