arpella72 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I see soldiers can shoot from halftracks but I have the sensation they do this randomly.It looks like they don't shoot when the vehicle is full of people.I'm not sure how It works.Is there any trick?. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) ah i have actually done experiments on this. if you give the occupants a target command they will stand up and fire, however only a couple guys wills actually stand up, and with the exception of the bren carrier will only fire to the sides and rear of the transport. also for whatever reason mg34/42 armed guys will just hang around playing cards despite them being the optimal ones to be doing that kind of stuff. Edited December 22, 2016 by Cobetco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 19 hours ago, arpella72 said: I see soldiers can shoot from halftracks but I have the sensation they do this randomly.It looks like they don't shoot when the vehicle is full of people.I'm not sure how It works.Is there any trick?. Pretty much what @Cobetco said. I would just add that troops shooting from a halftrack makes the halftrack a bullet magnet. IMO it is better to keep the HT buttoned with a small Target Arc to try and avoid troops shooting and drawing fire (The HT and troops almost always come out worse). After the troops are safely disembarked I will sometimes use the MG on the halftrack to support the troops. Even this must be done carefully or you get a KIA gunner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpella72 Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 I know what I did wrong.I forgot to order "open up" command to the people on board!.I thought that only aplied for the guy with the MG. MOS.96B2P,I know It's not really safe but...I love it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 44 minutes ago, arpella72 said: <Snip> MOS.96B2P,I know It's not really safe but...I love it! Well, I guess it does look cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Armored Rifle companies particularly expensive in this regard. Loads of half tracks that have a survivability of about 3 seconds if you try to use them for fire support. Even German HMGs seem to take them down with ease. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) I have noticed when a command team is in it with other troops you don't even need an open up command they do it automatically. I think commanders nearby may have something to do with it. Edited January 10, 2017 by user1000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 14 hours ago, Apache said: Armored Rifle companies particularly expensive in this regard. Loads of half tracks that have a survivability of about 3 seconds if you try to use them for fire support. Even German HMGs seem to take them down with ease. Haven´t retested this in V4.0 to this time, but in V3 I also had the impression that the vehicle + infantry combo makes for a hard coded priority target for all of the AI in sight with nasty consequences. This and the exposed stance of the riders when shooting (fully upright) from the vehicle makes this a combo to be avoided. I once made a small testing mod, where I replaced all the infantry shooting from standing stance (ie kar98k-firesingle-stand-ahead.ani) to the animation/stance used for kneel. This lowered the targetable profile of infantry shooting from HT´s so that the vehicle walls protects them way better, but the AI´s tendencies to kill them at all costs and with aparently increased accuracy didn´t really made much of a difference at last. Same counts for the other vehicle + infantry combo, the pillboxes. Pillbox crews can´t make good use of the provided cover, when enemy fire is aimed at the fire slits, since all of the crew is always standing upright and takes any direct fire (and shrapnel/blast) penetrating the slits unprotected (they can´t hide or duck down). Basically you can wear down pillbox crews with lots of MG fire hitting the fire slits over time. That´s from my observations in V4.0 with regard to pillboxes, but I assume halftrack riders still have a hard time when opening up in view of the enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman2575 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 On 12/23/2016 at 11:40 AM, MOS:96B2P said: I would just add that troops shooting from a halftrack makes the halftrack a bullet magnet. Yup -- and this touches on what for me is one of the biggest frustrations with CMx2: the lethality of unbuttoning. Drives me crazy. I essentially never unbutton tank commanders anymore -- it's just too risky and not worth the supposed benefit in spotting. There's no surer way to draw the AI out of an ambush than to unbutton. It's like dumping a giant bucket of chum in shark-infested waters. And for tank commanders and HT gunners, it's pretty much as deadly as jumping into said waters. Just to be clear, I'm not taking about unbuttoning in obviously (or even potentially) dangerous situations. I'm talking about unbuttoning when you are hundreds of meters from possible enemy contacts. The sniping power of your average grunt to pick off unbuttoned tank commanders from improbably long distances is breathtaking in CMx2. End rant... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 hours ago, sandman2575 said: Yup -- and this touches on what for me is one of the biggest frustrations with CMx2: the lethality of unbuttoning. Drives me crazy. I essentially never unbutton tank commanders anymore -- it's just too risky and not worth the supposed benefit in spotting. There's no surer way to draw the AI out of an ambush than to unbutton. It's like dumping a giant bucket of chum in shark-infested waters. And for tank commanders and HT gunners, it's pretty much as deadly as jumping into said waters. Just to be clear, I'm not taking about unbuttoning in obviously (or even potentially) dangerous situations. I'm talking about unbuttoning when you are hundreds of meters from possible enemy contacts. The sniping power of your average grunt to pick off unbuttoned tank commanders from improbably long distances is breathtaking in CMx2. End rant... it should be pointed out sandman that a patch or so ago in FB they reduced the threshold of fire for a commander to tuck him self away. to a point where I was rather happy with it, and could kinda not have to manage my TCs so much. This modified behavior seems to have been bundled into the 4.0 upgrade. so you might want to experiment now in 4.0, unless you have already and are still unhappy, in which case... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 ^^^ Yes, this. I agree that you don't want your TCs to be up when the tank is close but now it is much harder for the enemy to get TC kills at range. I recently watched and German team equipped with an MG42 try and take on the TCs of three tanks. All misses - the TCs buttoned up after the first burst hit their tanks. I think the range was around 400m. All very discouraging 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Not with mine it seems. But then I think the AI has a vendetta against me anyway One thing I do find, as has been mentioned, once opened up, it seems a sure fire way to get the enemy to reveal otherwise concealed positions as it seems unbuttoned vehicles (and what seems like ESPECIALLY those belonging to commanders) are real bullet magnets. I'm guessing something must trigger that response from the AI but I wonder how realistic it actually is? Perfectly positioned platoon(s) for ambush who suddenly let rip and reveal every position just because some TC decided to take a peak from 2-300 metres away? Thankfully they do seem harder to hit and do button again fairly pronto but it's still way too risky to have them open anywhere near a combat zone. As for half tracks, park 'em and leave 'em for me, not prepared to risk them being taken out by some NCOs Luger Edited January 12, 2017 by Apache 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithikial_AU Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just to add what's already been said, I don't think going the other way and preventing toops from firing from the back of halftracks and other vehicles while being passengers would be a valid route to take either. It's one of those little Tac AI functions that are rarely useful but still have a place on the battlefield. I've personally kept troops mounted in their halftracks while chasing down fleeing enemy infantry for example. Keep my boys mobile while there is limited threat to their safety. Having to dismount a squad, take out the enemy enemy and then remount in the hafltrack is effectively a minimum of 3 turns 'lost' in a WeGo battle. Not an ideal first option tactic in most cases but gives us commanders flexibility in the use of our forces on the battlefield. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 The HT gunner is the one who I constantly lose. If I order him to open up I can never get him to pop back down he just shoots and shoots until he is taken out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 13 hours ago, Apache said: Not with mine it seems. But then I think the AI has a vendetta against me anyway Yes, I asked the team to specifically code the game to do that for you. 13 hours ago, Apache said: One thing I do find, as has been mentioned, once opened up, it seems a sure fire way to get the enemy to reveal otherwise concealed positions as it seems unbuttoned vehicles (and what seems like ESPECIALLY those belonging to commanders) are real bullet magnets. I'm guessing something must trigger that response from the AI but I wonder how realistic it actually is? Perfectly positioned platoon(s) for ambush who suddenly let rip and reveal every position just because some TC decided to take a peak from 2-300 metres away?... On a more serious note. If you want to have your guys hold fire until the enemy gets into a particular kill zone then target arcs are the way to go. That should keep your MGs from opening up on TCs that are too far away. Just make sure you consider what happens when the enemy drives right up to the edge but not into the cover arc - you will become sad again. I find using cover arcs is successful when there is a terrain obstacle the enemy has to cross (hill, dip, hedge) to enter the ambush area. If the area just extends off into the distance then cover arcs are frequently more of a curse than a saviour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Yeah. For the units I'm in control of it's no problem. It's just OPFOR in campaigns etc. And yeah, I learned the hard way about how dangerous setting arcs can be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Yeah, there is not really a perfect answer. BTW the AI programming does have the ability to set cover arcs - the Ambush setting, I think for stance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 On 1/10/2017 at 9:03 PM, sandman2575 said: Yup -- and this touches on what for me is one of the biggest frustrations with CMx2: the lethality of unbuttoning. Drives me crazy. I essentially never unbutton tank commanders anymore -- it's just too risky and not worth the supposed benefit in spotting. There's no surer way to draw the AI out of an ambush than to unbutton. It's like dumping a giant bucket of chum in shark-infested waters. And for tank commanders and HT gunners, it's pretty much as deadly as jumping into said waters. Just to be clear, I'm not taking about unbuttoning in obviously (or even potentially) dangerous situations. I'm talking about unbuttoning when you are hundreds of meters from possible enemy contacts. The sniping power of your average grunt to pick off unbuttoned tank commanders from improbably long distances is breathtaking in CMx2. End rant... Oh, and I know why you and many others feel frustrated with this (and how BF decided to handle it)...I was one of those who always said it seems a little to unrealistic to have HT Gunners/Tank Crew consistently get shot at (let alone get hit) from Small Arms in short time and at long range...Now, I didn't mind if said Gunners/Crew got shot and hit consistently from a ranging Sniper, Short Range or Close Assault. I also remember in one of those debates a person posting a picture at ground level showing the camera directly behind an Inf Squad Zooming at 2.5 times (to represent Binos...let alone naked eyes) at a Vehicle 400-500 hundred yards away...He said something like; "See, even I can barely see a Vehicle at that range, let along know if a person is even sticking his head up"...Now, on top of this, have you ever wondered why it takes several seconds or turns even to spot a Squad of Inf in the Open (fairly realistic), but can easily spot a head size target on a vehicle 500 yards away so as to get shot ?...That was also debated. It was an interesting debate with the end result, Steve, intervening and said he will look into maybe having H/T Gunners/Crew having a lower stance or ducking down quicker under Small Arms (the Stug MG debate also comes to mind)...However, he mentioned not changing the range or how quickly at which the above Gunners/Crew will get shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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