A Canadian Cat Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said: But when things got too hot out there, I started doing suppressive fire to cover the screening troops while they ran back across a field to safety. I actually managed to get them all back to friendly lines alive and well, and this stuff is so much more fun to me than just winning the game +1 and nicely done - I am not usually that successful 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, IanL said: +1 and nicely done - I am not usually that successful Thanks - I was very happy to see my guys get out of there, especially when the 81mm mortars started to come down on where they had been just 60 seconds before I think my opponent hadn't spotted my teams running away, or he would likely have stopped his mortars firing. Suppression not only prevents enemy fire, but also observation ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) *Side-Note* I remember back in my Hobby Shop days, a group played Warhammer Minis, then later the WWII equivalent Flames of War...When troops got hit they received a Savings Roll; Vets got a 1-4 to survive, Reg 1-3, Green 1-2 (let alone any Cover modifiers). If BF has anything similar to the way Troop Quality is handled, then Vets will generally loose half as much compared to Green in a even Match/Setup, and thus should cost much more. Edited November 9, 2016 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 7 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said: I do. Not the whole force, just a few units here and there. Why? Because they are cheap Actually, I take that back. It's been a few years but I have in fact chosen a mostly Green force in several QBs (PBEM). I did it because I was on the defense and needed more troops to cover the ground. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: One way this could be done would be to increase the points for going up levels exponentially. I would have to go back and look at my old tests, but IIRC the performance increases are linear not exponential. Edited November 9, 2016 by Vanir Ausf B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 bullets/arty kill veterans just as easily as conscripts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 11 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said: I would have to go back and look at my old tests, but IIRC the performance increases are linear not exponential. If the performance increase is linear, might the actual benefit the player receives still be exponential? Not a trick question, I'm just wondering about this. There's a lot of difference between a near miss and hitting the target, even if one might say the guy hitting what he shoots at is "only" slightly more accuracte than the guy who misses.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, weapon2010 said: bullets/arty kill veterans just as easily as conscripts. No No...and I really hope that's not the case, Weapon2010... I believe BF mentioned each Class of Troops has it's own 'Chance of Hit', 'Savings Die-Roll and 'Casualty Recovery'...Vet's Overall should have a better chance of Survivability, then Lower Class Troops. Edited November 10, 2016 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: If the performance increase is linear, might the actual benefit the player receives still be exponential? Not a trick question, I'm just wondering about this. There's a lot of difference between a near miss and hitting the target, even if one might say the guy hitting what he shoots at is "only" slightly more accuracte than the guy who misses.. In your cowboy scenario, yes, but I suspect not in typical gameplay. Just my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 hour ago, JoMc67 said: No No...and I really hope that's not the case, Weapon2010... I believe BF mentioned each Class of Troops has it's own 'Chance of Hit', 'Savings Die-Roll and 'Casualty Recovery'...Vet's Overall should have a better chance of Survivability, then Lower Class Troops. I have done some limited testing that strongly suggests Elite troops are no more bullet resistant than Regulars in CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 I often wondered if better quality troops are better at ducking down before getting hit by an artillery barrage though? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said: I often wondered if better quality troops are better at ducking down before getting hit by an artillery barrage though? I would hope so, and think Better Quality Troops would understand Battlefield Combat Awareness better then Lower Quality...Better at Ducking when under Small Arms or HE Fire, etc, etc. If this is not applied in some form, as Vanir is suggesting, then BF might be missing some sort of Layer in all their Calculations. Edited November 10, 2016 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) I don't know if this is applied, or not (I imagine it is to some degree), but BF might be missing some sort of Layer in all their Calculations. Example; One Layer of Calculations is for Fire against Troops in their current Stance, and another added Layer for said Troops who are showing situational awareness within their current Stance (Ducking, Dodging, etc). So, if a Bullet or HE Frag Trajectory intersects with a Vet Trooper in Standing pose, then he may get a Better Savings-Roll (chance of survival) compared to a Green Trooper in same Standing pose. *Overview*...I mean, after all, there is a reason why a Vet Trooper has survived the War up to this point. Edited November 10, 2016 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 Well I can only speculate, but I've noticed that troops will call out artillery and duck down before the first shell lands. Prone units are much better at surviving artillery generally, so just being faster to go to ground would protect veterans, even if no special veteran saving rolls were applied. I don't know if veterans get special bullet-dodging powers in the game, but if they do, the effect must be quite subtle. I can't say I have noticed it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 "Elite troops are no more bullet resistant than Regulars in CM. " More importantly surely is that the higher experience troops will aim better and obtain more hits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: Prone units are much better at surviving artillery generally, so just being faster to go to ground would protect veterans, ^^^ This. Also better lead more experienced troops will stay down and not get up an try to run away - which is deadly when under a barrage. 1 hour ago, Erwin said: More importantly surely is that the higher experience troops will aim better and obtain more hits. ^^^ This too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 5 hours ago, JoMc67 said: *Overview*...I mean, after all, there is a reason why a Vet Trooper has survived the War up to this point. Well, if we are talking about the real war, a lot of it is due to chance. The advantage of being a vet would be a greater familiarity with the odds and greater shrewdness in playing them. But even with that going for a vet trooper, s**t still happens and vets became casualties too. And I expect that a lot of soldiers who might have made great vets, got plugged their first day in the line, before they had time to learn the ropes. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 13 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said: 3 hours ago, Michael Emrys said: 13 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said: I have done some limited testing that strongly suggests Elite troops are no more bullet resistant than Regulars in CM. 14 hours ago, JoMc67 said: No No...and I really hope that's not the case, Weapon2010... I believe BF mentioned each Class of Troops has it's own 'Chance of Hit', 'Savings Die-Roll and 'Casualty Recovery'...Vet's Overall should have a better chance of Survivability, then Lower Class Troops. what I meant by that if a mortar round or mg burst lands within lethal range "Class of Troops" has nothing to do how many casualties will occur, only which direction the shrapnel is heading and it will kill both equally, now I often buy veteran troops for they are much easier to command and don't break from orders, but they die just as easily if foolishly used 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 On 10/11/2016 at 7:49 PM, IanL said: On 10/11/2016 at 4:23 PM, Bulletpoint said: Prone units are much better at surviving artillery generally, so just being faster to go to ground would protect veterans, ^^^ This. Also better lead more experienced troops will stay down and not get up an try to run away - which is deadly when under a barrage. Ok, I take that back. Units won't actually go to ground when artillery is incoming. They will just shout "get down!" but stay up. I could have sworn I once saw units dive for cover when they heard artillery - before the rounds actually landed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: I could have sworn I once saw units dive for cover when they heard artillery - before the rounds actually landed. Hmmm. Could this be a case of remembering what you expected to see? The behavior you describe is realistic enough and what one might expect even if not all members of a team/squad manage to get completely prone before the shell arrives. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 The tac AI does have soldiers automatically go to ground. They don't all 100% hit the ground and stay there but they do take cover. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 5 hours ago, IanL said: The tac AI does have soldiers automatically go to ground. They don't all 100% hit the ground and stay there but they do take cover. But do they start to drop down before the first shell hits, or is it just a reaction to nearby explosions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: But do they start to drop down before the first shell hits, or is it just a reaction to nearby explosions? The later. How would they drop down before anything has happened yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 13 minutes ago, IanL said: The later. How would they drop down before anything has happened yet? Because they hear the incoming shells? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placebo Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: Because they hear the incoming shells? I am sure i have seen vet's interviewed and they say if you are the target you never hear the incoming round (only the impact). Edited November 14, 2016 by Placebo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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