Soldiers Firing AT Rockets From Vehicles

[user1000]

IN CM:BN is it possible to put a bazooka team in an m20 and fire from inside the m20 at tanks? Same thing with an allied half-track?

Goes for the same with a panzerschrek/faust team in a half track if they see armor, would the guy with the AT rocket engage if he sees a armored target?

 

[womble]

You can find that out for yourself. Make sure you make any targets Fanatic and give them short, circular Target Arcs so they don't return fire/suppress your Tube Guys before they can shoot.

[Heirloom_Tomato]

I ran a quick scenario based on your parameters and it confirms what I suggested in the halftrack gunner thread about self preservation on behalf of the AI. When an m20 vehicle spots a tank, they try and get the heck out of the way, not engage. Even elite fanatics ignore the target orders and reverse into cover.

[StieliAlpha]

Well, not a surprise. Considering the exhaust blast, a Panzerfaust or a Schreck is not a weapon to be fired in confined spaces. Considering their accuracy, a half track is not a very stable platform. And, as discussed elsewhere, protection is a minimum. To make a long sentence short: I would rather bail out, too. ?

[user1000]

Well, not a surprise. Considering the exhaust blast, a Panzerfaust or a Schreck is not a weapon to be fired in confined spaces. Considering their accuracy, a half track is not a very stable platform. And, as discussed elsewhere, protection is a minimum. To make a long sentence short: I would rather bail out, too. ?

 

You don't have to be right next to the tank, 100-400 yard range on bazooka. Of course you don't shoot it while your moving.. If a tank barrel is pointing at you I would reverse as well. What about if the m20 was facing the tanks sides or rear? I would shoot and scoot. I think I read somewhere they had M20s with bazookas in them for AT squads that actively hunted tanks. Maybe a recon group. I will try to look them up

Edited March 9, 2016 by user1000

[StieliAlpha]

100 yards is a long shot even for a Shrek. 30 meters for a Panzerfaust.

Nope, that sounds like Rambo, killing a Hind with a bow shot.

Edited March 9, 2016 by StieliAlpha

[Pete Wenman]

 

You need to apply some real world logic to the situation. A Bazooka is about 4.5 ft long. How easy do you think it is to manhandle a 4 and half foot steel drainpipe in a constricted space such as the compartment of an armoured car ?

Once you have managed to get thing out of the hatch/cupola how do you then load it while still remaining in the vehicle. All this on the basis that a tank which can kill in the blink of an eye continues to point it's barrel the wrong way. Very few soldiers would take those odds.

P

[user1000]

 

You need to apply some real world logic to the situation. A Bazooka is about 4.5 ft long. How easy do you think it is to manhandle a 4 and half foot steel drainpipe in a constricted space such as the compartment of an armoured car ?

Once you have managed to get thing out of the hatch/cupola how do you then load it while still remaining in the vehicle. All this on the basis that a tank which can kill in the blink of an eye continues to point it's barrel the wrong way. Very few soldiers would take those odds.

P

^ I think this guy has never seen the open area of an M20 armored car

[Thewood1]

I'm thinking someone has never hefted a bazooka or seen a rocket loaded in one...and never been in an M20.  Take the 5ft tube, add in the 2+ ft rocket, then then take into account the 4.5 ft open space of the M20.  You have the recipe for an awkward loading and firing.

Versus grabbing the tube and rocket, hopping out of the top of the M20, and firing from there.  What would you choose?  And that is not even considering the ring mount for the M2 making it even more awkward.

I have attached a pic of an M20.  The M20 is 16 ft long.  I estimate the opening to be about 4.5 ft.  I have actually sat in one and it is very tight with the MG mount and other stuff in the cab.  If more than one person is in the cab, I don't see how anyone in a hurry to fire wouldn't hop out to do it.  I can't imagine how you would load it in the cab.

[Michael Emrys]

You know, I think Avalon Hill may have a lot to answer for regarding this controversy. IIRC they allowed bazooka type weapons to be fired from halftracks in Squad Leader, and players liked that so much that they have demanded that feature ever since.

Michael

Edited March 10, 2016 by Michael Emrys

[Thewood1]

I wonder if there is any historical reports of it happening?  I have never seen it mentioned.  I would think if you were sitting in the open in an HT or M20 and anything heavier than a MG drew a bead on you...it would either be bail or hit the gas.

[Thewood1]

btw, there is a lot of sketchy stuff in ASL (I'm sorry...the most realistic simulation of tactical WW2 combat ever) that has permeated the minds wargamers for decades.  I would hazard a guess you could take an ASL gamer, drop them into the middle of a battle in WW2, and they would start screaming about Rule 23.5 subsection 5 paragraph 3 says you can't do that.

[Michael Emrys]

btw, there is a lot of sketchy stuff in ASL (I'm sorry...the most realistic simulation of tactical WW2 combat ever) that has permeated the minds wargamers for decades.  I would hazard a guess you could take an ASL gamer, drop them into the middle of a battle in WW2, and they would start screaming about Rule 23.5 subsection 5 paragraph 3 says you can't do that.

You've got it!  But what I was talking about predates even ASL and goes back to the original SL, some time around 1980 I think.

Michael

[Thewood1]

When I talk about ASL, I always assume SL is there in the mix.  I really don't differentiate them.  I was playing SL within a month of it showing up in hobby stores.  Even then I realized the crazy crap that was embedded in its rules.  But it was the only game in town then.  After Steel Panthers, Close Combat and CMBO, I never looked back, except with derision.

[Michael Emrys]

I was playing SL within a month of it showing up in hobby stores.  Even then I realized the crazy crap that was embedded in its rules.

The one that had me screaming, stamping my feet and pulling my hair out was the one that allowed manpack flame throwers a range of 80 meters. So much for John Hill's "design for effect"... Things did get better when someone else took over development of later modules, but eventually the game got buried under the huge mass of rules. One other thing that bugged me was the mapboards. These bore about as much relation to real terrain as a miniature golf course.

Michael

[Pete Wenman]

^ I think this guy has never seen the open area of an M20 armored car

 

Ok have it your way. But for the record not only have  I had the opportunity to ride in a M20  on a couple of occasions I have also live fired the Carl Gustav 84mm - but what do I know. 

[user1000]

I'm thinking someone has never hefted a bazooka or seen a rocket loaded in one...and never been in an M20.  Take the 5ft tube, add in the 2+ ft rocket, then then take into account the 4.5 ft open space of the M20.  You have the recipe for an awkward loading and firing.

 

 

You need to apply some real world logic to the situation. A Bazooka is about 4.5 ft long. How easy do you think it is to manhandle a 4 and half foot steel drainpipe in a constricted space such as the compartment of an armoured car ?

 

I know this is a model but this is actually where they kept the bazooka, above and behind the driver. You just lift one end higher than the other to take it out.. It would be crammed but it could be fired by the crew inside or outside. The .50cal could also be dismounted and fired outside the vehicle.

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by user1000

[Baneman]

"It would be cramped but it could be fired by the crew inside or outside."

Quite possibly, but could is not the same as would - for all the space/awkwardness reasons given above.

[Michael Emrys]

 

 

I know this is a model but this is actually where they kept the bazooka, above and behind the driver. You just lift one end higher than the other to take it out.. It would be crammed but it could be fired by the crew inside or outside. The .50cal could also be dismounted and fired outside the vehicle.

 

No sorry, I'm not buying that. Dismounting the bazooka might not be too bad with two people who have practiced it, but then loading and aiming it with that huge MG in the way is just something I wouldn't want to do while a tank was drawing a bead on me. I would get the hell into a covered position, then jump out of the vehicle and let someone hand me the weapon. I would set it against the vehicle and let them hand me a couple of rockets which I would hold while they climbed out. I would hand him the rockets, pick up the 'zook, and we would go in search of a good and preferably safe position from which to shoot at the tank.

Michael