MOS:96B2P Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 This is a continuation of a conversation from Bud B's AAR thread. I didn't want to distract to far from the AAR so I moved the conversation to this location. Tank speed when transporting riders. This is a bit confusing since you can give a tank with riders any move command including Fast and Quick but in practice the tanks will not move at Fast or Quick if they have riders. This is explained in Engine Manual v3.01 page 45. I did a quick experiment and took a few screenshots below. The highest speed a tank with tank riders can travel at is Move. Depending on terrain the tank may drop down to Slow until that terrain is passed. (Hunt went the same speed as Move but of course in a shooting game Hunt would be more likely to stop movement all together.) Engine Manual v3.01 page 45: Quick Restrictions - same as for Move, but fitness and fatigue play a bigger role. Additionally, vehicle with soldiers riding on top of them (such as tank riders) cannot move at Quick speed. Vehicles given a Quick order will instead move at a slower speed. Fast Restrictions - Fast has the same availability restrictions as Move (immobilization, fatigue, etc.), and, additionally, might be unavailable when certain components of a vehicle are damaged (even if not fully destroyed), or for infantry units, when combat/equipment loads are excessive. Additionally, vehicle with soldiers riding on top of them (such as tank riders) cannot move at Fast speed. Vehicles given a Fast order will instead move at a slower speed. A tank with riders and Move orders traveled the same distance in one minute as a tank with riders and Fast orders. In a TACSOP with tank riders the speed/movement orders that the AI will actually implement are Hunt, Slow and Move. Generally speaking which is the best choice between the three? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Well, if you are trying to use tank riding to assault an enemy position then you want to go as fast as possible and not stop. For that to work you need to make sure the enemy position is heavily suppressed first but you still want to be exposed for as short a time as possible. Therefore Hunt is out, and Slow is out. That leaves Move. Frankly I would just use Fast and let the TC slow down as needed for the riders and obstacles. That should also put them in the best frame of mind to get there and not be distracted (I have to admit that I am not sure if the tank would stop and engage a spotted enemy with a move order and ignore it with a fast order but it feels like that might be the case ). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 (I have to admit that I am not sure if the tank would stop and engage a spotted enemy with a move order and ignore it with a fast order but it feels like that might be the case ). Hmmmmm.... This I did not think of. That could change things.....back to the experiments......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Hmmmmm.... This I did not think of. That could change things.....back to the experiments......... I was hoping you would do that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Yes! Test it properly by throwing an anti-tank gun out there to see what happens! Don't forget the pictures! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Arriving at your destination with half of your infantry scattered across the field behind you with broken limbs is not tactically advantageous. So tanks playing taxi go slow. Tank riding into the teeth of the enemy has always been problematic. Russians tended to do it only after the opposition had been thoroughly supressed and not liable to scour the tank of its infantry with hmg fire. On the western front they tended not to do it at all. Except giving accompanying infantry a friendly taxi ride rather than letting them walk to the next assembly area. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 I did some more experimenting. I used green, regular and veteran tank crews. In regards to tank riders Move and Fast seem to work the same. Both Move and Fast traveled at Move speed. When tanks on Move or on Fast spotted the OpFor none of them stopped. They all continued traveling to their assigned waypoints. Tanks traveling at both Move and Fast fired on the OpFor while traveling. Tanks traveling at both Move and Fast ignored the OpFor when the tanks had area fire orders. Again area firing while traveling. Also gave the riders area fire orders. Looked pretty cool with the tanks blasting away and the riders shooting. This was also done with MOVE order. With the new information I made some changes to my tank rider assault TACSOP. 1. Synchronize with an artillery barrage and have an over-watch force. 2. Give riders area Target orders. 3. Give riders Hunt waypoint on objective. (If tank stops riders will take cover.) 4. Give riders large 360 degree target arc at their Hunt waypoint to cancel previous area Target orders. 5. Plot Fast waypoints for the tanks. (Will actually travel at Move speed) 6. Give suppression tanks Target & Target Light orders from different waypoints. 7. Have suppression tanks button. (They will not be acquiring targets) 8. Give Open Up order to a few tanks and no area targets. (This is for targets of opportunity) Any additional helpful suggestions are welcome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) With the new information I made some changes to my tank rider assault TACSOP.1. Synchronize with an artillery barrage and have an over-watch force. 2. Give riders area Target orders.3. Give riders Hunt waypoint on objective. (If tank stops riders will take cover.)4. Give riders large 360 degree target arc at their Hunt waypoint to cancel previous area Target orders.5. Plot Fast waypoints for the tanks. (Will actually travel at Move speed) 6. Give suppression tanks Target & Target Light orders from different waypoints.7. Have suppression tanks button. (They will not be acquiring targets)8. Give Open Up order to a few tanks and no area targets. (This is for targets of opportunity) Any additional helpful suggestions are welcome. Very useful, like all your tests, my friend. Thanks for doing that and coming up with a SOP to use with the information gathered. Edited August 30, 2015 by Bud_B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The benefit of plotting FAST is that, once the pesky riders have been stripped off by enemy action (by definition, if they are being stripped off by enemy fire, the tank IS in an enemy fire zone), then the tank will zoom forward out of the fire zone. Minor, but a benefit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Awesome information, thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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