Command Friction - Applying C3 Effects in Combat Mission - Playtest

[Bil Hardenberger]

Hi Bil,

 

After having a quick read through this thread I am definitely interested to see how this 'plays' out. Actually I am surprised their are not more comments as this seems to have some very interesting possibilities.  As a primarily single player, I for one (as MOS:96B2P already commented) think this could actually force me to come up with a proper plan against the AI and stick to it. As I play mostly small maps with a small number of units the spread-sheet wouldn't be too burdensome to update so thanks for coming up with the workbook and making it available. 

 

Also without having looked into it too deeply I think there could be a possibility for Battlefront to use a similar logic to what you have presented here to expand upon the scripting for the AI.  Certainly for scenario designers a tool like this could help keep track of the various units and plans when building AI scripts. 

 

One crazy idea I've just had is that Scenario designers could write an AI script for the defense then use a version of your Excel Work book template to create an attack plan (which is saved with the scenario). The 'player' then does the 'grunt' work and tries to adhere to the given plan/timetable  using the rules you have given.  I can just imagine the defeated 'player' blaming the 'General'  because of his inflexible plan .  Potentially would make for a great learning tool for us tactical novices!

 

Now to download the workbook and actually check out how it works

 

Thanks weta_nz, I appreciate the comments.  I too am surprised that there hasn't been more interest, but I suspect most people are waiting, like you, to see how it develops. I would love to see someone use the workbook and rules against the AI.

 

Let me know what you think about the workbook and its ease of use.

[Bil Hardenberger]

 

EMERGENCY REACT

 

Anytime a unit receives enemy fire it can use Emergency React.  The only prerequisite is that the unit itself is receiving the fire, either direct or indirect. 

 

This fire doesn’t have to hit the unit, but if the player deems that it could be fired at the unit then it can be used.

 

·         Emergency React includes one of the following:

 

1.    The unit stops in its current position and makes no further movement until the player deems it is safe to do so.

 

2.    The unit uses the withdraw button and immediately withdraws away from the enemy fire.  Only one waypoint is allowed.  The unit then makes no further movement until the player deems it is safe to do so. 

 

3.    The unit uses any movement order to move away from or around where the enemy fire is impacting.  Multiple waypoints are allowed, but the unit must get back to the area so it can complete its original Task.  It is okay to go outside of the active Task area to avoid the enemy fire.

 

·         Emergency React for option 1: only ends when the player decides it’s safe to continue that unit’s Task.

 

·         Emergency React for option 1 or option 2: ends when the unit reaches the final waypoint and when the player decides it’s safe to continue that unit’s Task.

 

In the next turn Warren is using Emergency react as described above to extricate his Pz-IV from my Sherman's fire... I think, from what he described, that he is using Option 3 to get the tank out of my line of fire.  Seeing as his tank platoon is on a Defense Task he can freely move within his tank platoon's defense zone to get away from the incoming fire.

 

Edited June 21, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger

[A Canadian Cat]

I for one am watching with great interest. I am sure I am not alone. My concern is the amount of record keeping. I'll try it out at some point to see if it really is a problem for me but that will likely be after thr Bulge game comes out.

[Bil Hardenberger]

The General

BY SIEGFRIED SASSOON

“Good-morning, good-morning!” the General said

When we met him last week on our way to the line.

Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of 'em dead,

And we're cursing his staff for incompetent swine.

“He's a cheery old card,” grunted Harry to Jack

As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.

But he did for them both by his plan of attack

 

LLF, I meant to say thanks for posting that, I'm a big fan of Siegfried Sassoon.

 

 

I for one am watching with great interest. I am sure I am not alone. My concern is the amount of record keeping. I'll try it out at some point to see if it really is a problem for me but that will likely be after thr Bulge game comes out.

 

Ian, from my playtest the big time invenstment in this system is the original workbook setup and Task assignment, Tasks are not changed, in most cases, every turn, so the workbook does not require a huge amount of labor... I think the way I'm presenting it might make it look like it is more time intensive than it really is becasue I'm trying to explain everything as I go. 

[MOS:96B2P]

I would love to see someone use the workbook and rules against the AI.  

 

If I have time I would like to give this a try.  In between PBEM turns I am playing The Road to Montebourg Campaign redux.  I am in the middle of one of the battles so now would probably not be a good time.  But when I start the next battle maybe I will use the workbook. 

 

I for one am watching with great interest. I am sure I am not alone. My concern is the amount of record keeping. I'll try it out at some point to see if it really is a problem for me but that will likely be after the Bulge game comes out.

 

It seems most of the work for the player is at the very beginning when all the units and soft factors must be entered into the workbook.  After that you have to remember to enter the current game time on the Command Tab and then save which will automatically update task and initiative.  (If I am understanding this correctly so far)  Most of the other changes that you make are facilitated with drop down menus.  So, I think if we can get through the set up phase the workbook does most of the work.

 

Ninja'ed by Bil himself.  

Edited June 21, 2015 by MOS:96B2P

[MOS:96B2P]

I have been playing around with the workbook some and noticed something with the game time on the command tab.  If the battle is one hour and I enter 1.00 then and then hit save the task and initiative times are goofy.  Same for a two hour battle.  After trying different times I think the way to go for a one hour battle is to enter the starting time as 0.60 and for a two hour battle enter 1.60 on the command tab line.  Or actually if you are playing any battle over an hour long you are eventually going to reach the one hour mark and have to enter the one hour time.  Would the way I described above be the correct way to enter hourly times or am I missing something?

 

Also I wonder if this system will encourage the use of mission type orders.  In the comments field to the right of tasks you have the opportunity to give the commanders intent reference the assigned task.  If 2nd Platoon is given an attack task and the comments field states attack and secure Hill 239 the 2nd Platoon Lt. does not have much wiggle room if the situation changes.  Then he has all the resulting C2 delays for getting updated orders to match the changed situation.  If instead the comments field stated attack in the area of Hill 239 in order to interdict the OpFor's use of Route One maybe there would not be as many C2 delays?  The Lt. would have more latitude to use initiative?  Not sure how this would play out just an interesting thought............         

[Bil Hardenberger]

INITIATIVE

 

I wanted to go ahead and post the parts of the rules on using Initiative.. Warren could use Initiative with the other tanks in his tank platoon if they meet the requirements.

 

Initiative is meant to be an individual unit reaction to enemy contact, and they are designed to be temporary tasks and are not meant to replace teh current assigned Task.

 

I also have attached the full set of rules to this post now that all aspects of the system have been explained.

 

 

INITIATIVE

 

Can be used to interrupt a unit or a formation’s Task and is dependent on the C2 state for each unit.  This allows you to abandon a previous Task and give new orders in reaction to an enemy contact.

 

There is a delay for the use of Initiative depending on training level and leadership.

 

When Initiative is active for a unit or formation the player cannot change or Lock-In to change the original Task

 

When an HQ uses Initiative it is intended for all units of that formation that are within C2 range, all others will either:

 

·         Continue on their Original Task or

·         Use Initiative on their own

·         When they are within C2 range, then they too will begin the change Task process

 

When Initiative is active for a unit or formation the player cannot change or Lock-In (see to change the original Task.  The Initiative must complete first.

 

Note that there is no delay for units on the Scout Task for using Initiative.  They must still pass one of the Initiative Criteria checks.

 

Upon completing the Initiative Task the unit or formation immediately returns to its original Task.

 

If none of the following criteria are met then the unit or formation cannot use Initiative and must continue performing whatever Task it has been assigned.

 

If one of the following criteria is met, then the unit or formation can use Initiative.  The unit or formation using Initiative revert to its originally assigned Task upon completion of the Initiative Task

 

Initiative Criteria

 

Initiative can be used if any of the following apply:

●     If the unit has an enemy contact (see description above) - the unit CAN be out of C2 range

●     If an HQ unit has either a firm or UI contact for an enemy unit

○     Units within the formation can then use Initiative if they are within C2

○     Units within C2 do not need to have a firm or UI enemy contact if they are within C2 range of their immediate HQ

·         Units or formations with the Scout Task do not have to be within C2 range to use Initiative:

o   The Initiative assigned task must remain within the Scout Task boundaries specified by the player

o   If the unit or formation uses Initiative it immediately reverts to the Scout Task upon completion of that Initiative assigned Task

 

 

Initiative Tasks can be stacked (limit of three Tasks):

·         for example: Move to point X; then Attack area Y; then Defend area Y

·         this is counted as one Task and the unit or formation must complete the entire string if it is outside of C2 or does not again pass one of the checks for using Initiative

 

Initiative Tasks are reactionary in nature and thus can only include one of the following Tasks:

 

●     Move

●     Engage

●     Move & Engage

●     Hasty Attack

○     i.e. a squad performs a squad attack drill

●     Hold Position

○     Used in one turn increments (up to three turns)

○     If multiple Hold Position Tasks are ordered then the unit can do           nothing else during this period

○     Immediately returns to original Task upon completion of the final Hold Position Task

●     Withdraw

●     Return to Task

○      Used as the final Initiative Task entry to return the unit to its original Task

 

 

Use INITIATIVE - Process

 

1.    Click the + sign on the right to expand the INITIATIVE Lock-In and Task Columns

2.    The INITIATIVE STARTS time will dictate when the player can activate the INITIATIVE Task

3.    To allow a unit to use INITIATIVE  enter this time in the LOCK-IN column:

a.    As the INITIATIVE STARTS time will be different every turn, you need to lock-in so you can use INITIATIVE for these units

b.    This is done by entering the time that the INITIATIVE STARTS

c.    This must be in the exact same format as the time in the INITIATIVE STARTS column (see above)

4.    When entries are made in these columns the LOCK-IN column will turn amber to help you remember that a INITIATIVE is being used.

5.    Once assigned, the INITIATIVE Tasks cannot be changed without first resetting the LOCK-IN time to the current turn’s INITIATIVE STARTS time.  In other words the clock must start again.

6.    Assign the INITIATIVE Tasks as required.  The available Tasks are limited to those available to a unit using INITIATIVE

6.    As the game unfolds and the game time ticks down, eventually the time in the LOCK-IN entry will match the current game time and it will turn green.  This indicates that the player is now free to use the Initiative Task orders during the next orders phase.

 

COMMAND FRICTION For CM RULES 24MAY15.pdf

[Bil Hardenberger]

I have been playing around with the workbook some and noticed something with the game time on the command tab.  If the battle is one hour and I enter 1.00 then and then hit save the task and initiative times are goofy.  Same for a two hour battle.  After trying different times I think the way to go for a one hour battle is to enter the starting time as 0.60 and for a two hour battle enter 1.60 on the command tab line.  Or actually if you are playing any battle over an hour long you are eventually going to reach the one hour mark and have to enter the one hour time.  Would the way I described above be the correct way to enter hourly times or am I missing something?...         

 

That is a great catch!  Thanks, I will need to add a blurb on the time setting into the rules or less simple, fix the formulas.  

Edited June 21, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger

[Bil Hardenberger]

Hehheh, I already fixed the code, new Workbook is attached.. thanks MOS!!  Set the time as seen in the game clock (with the period to separate the hour from the minute) and the calculations will all now work correctly,IOW you can enter the times as 1.00 and 2.00 and they will still work.

BATTLE LOG-PzG Battalion 21JUNY15.zip

Edited June 21, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger

[A Canadian Cat]

Ian, from my playtest the big time invenstment in this system is the original workbook setup and Task assignment, Tasks are not changed, in most cases, every turn, so the workbook does not require a huge amount of labor... I think the way I'm presenting it might make it look like it is more time intensive than it really is becasue I'm trying to explain everything as I go.

Fair enough. I will definitely give it a go. Thanks for the detailed explanation, even if it could be intimidating if would be worse to get part way through and become lost.

[MOS:96B2P]

Bil,

 

Thanks for the Command Friction rule book.  That answered a lot of questions.   

 

In addition it might be useful to see how units are initially plugged into the correct format.  I noticed in the Force Command tab 1 PzG Co. HQ and 2 PzG Co. HQ are hyperlinked?  (The blue line thing under them)  How do you make that happen?  Under the Company tabs the first row and column of each platoon are shaded.  How is that accomplished?  What if it was a platoon sized battle?  Would the platoon HQ become the Force Command tab unit?  Or do you always need Battalion and Company HQs as placeholders in the workbook?      

 

If I use the exact same order of battle that you use in the workbook and just change the names of the units I can probably make it work.  1 PzG Co. becomes 1^st Rifle Company etc…  But if I need to add an additional company or maybe a battalion level engineer platoon I am not sure of the Excel mechanics.    

 

Sorry for all the questions which are probably just basic Excel worksheet mechanics.  I googled Excel worksheet.  While I gained some exposure to “Count” and “Sum” and “Logic Function” I still don’t know how to shade a column or do the blue underline thing or put in a different OOB............. 

[Bil Hardenberger]

MOS, yeah I expected that there would be a lot of people who are not familiar with Excel.  I'll work up a little tutorial for setting up a workbook and try to answer all of your questions.

[General Jack Ripper]

A tutorial would be excellent, Bil. I haven't used Excel in about 10 years.

I did download the Command Friction Rules pdf, and I'm going to try to integrate some rules into my current PBEM with John Kettler.

As I said before, I had my own house rules, but these are better. Especially with regards to the rules for communications, and defining tasks.

 

My previous house rules were to implement a command delay to simulate the passage of communications, and to only allow units to 'react' (i.e. Area Fire, etc.) on positions to which they have a contact icon. I had looser rules in regards to voice communication, but I also included the use of runners to pass a voice command to multiple units quickly.

Even simple rules like this provided a lot of friction, especially in Shock Force playing as combatants. The way I figured it, combatants would possess hand held walkie talkies, and cell phones. It was certainly interesting trying to simulate the delay and vagueness involved when one combatant group calls another one on a cell phone to report an enemy contact.

 

"Hello?"

"Stop shooting you idiot, they're in the RED building."

"I thought you said the RIGHT building!"

"No it's the RED one!"

"Alright, we'll shoot at that one instead."

[agusto]

Bil this is really cool. I added the thread to my favorites in Firefox. I will have to try this too (as soon as i have fully understood how it works - it looks rather complex).

[Bil Hardenberger]

A tutorial would be excellent, Bil. I haven't used Excel in about 10 years.

I did download the Command Friction Rules pdf, and I'm going to try to integrate some rules into my current PBEM with John Kettler.

As I said before, I had my own house rules, but these are better. Especially with regards to the rules for communications, and defining tasks.

 

My previous house rules were to implement a command delay to simulate the passage of communications, and to only allow units to 'react' (i.e. Area Fire, etc.) on positions to which they have a contact icon. I had looser rules in regards to voice communication, but I also included the use of runners to pass a voice command to multiple units quickly.

Even simple rules like this provided a lot of friction, especially in Shock Force playing as combatants. The way I figured it, combatants would possess hand held walkie talkies, and cell phones. It was certainly interesting trying to simulate the delay and vagueness involved when one combatant group calls another one on a cell phone to report an enemy contact.

 

"Hello?"

"Stop shooting you idiot, they're in the RED building."

"I thought you said the RIGHT building!"

"No it's the RED one!"

"Alright, we'll shoot at that one instead."

 

Slim, first of all I'm glad to hear you are playing John, he is a smart guy and should give you a good fight,  Let me know how it goes.

 

 

Bil this is really cool. I added the thread to my favorites in Firefox. I will have to try this too (as soon as i have fully understood how it works - it looks rather complex).

 

Agusto, I think it looks more complex than it really is... most of the rules are explanatory, I have tried to keep the actual rules to a minimum.  The workbook is the real key to the system and I have tried to make that as easy to use as possible as well.  All of the code is pre-set, so all you need to do is fill in the soft factors for each unit, then assign tasks, monitor the workbook to determine when a task can be changed, etc...  

 

I will be adding to this AAR as well, Warren uses Initiative in his next turn, so I'll talk through that.

[c3k]

As others have mentioned, this looks great and I'm interested to see it in action. Watching the AAR...

[Harsmith]

I have often wondered if the system of AI orders in scenario design could be adapted to make a game like this. The concept would be that each turn orders similar to the AI programing could be given to an element, eg each platoon or even section, provided they were in command from the senior HQ which would represent the player.: eg assault, advance etc. Does any game do this - ? Tac ops. I doubt BF will ever devote the time to it so Bils system might be the closest we get.

[Bil Hardenberger]

I have often wondered if the system of AI orders in scenario design could be adapted to make a game like this. The concept would be that each turn orders similar to the AI programing could be given to an element, eg each platoon or even section, provided they were in command from the senior HQ which would represent the player.: eg assault, advance etc. Does any game do this - ? Tac ops. I doubt BF will ever devote the time to it so Bils system might be the closest we get.

 

The Command Ops games do this at the Operational level... and they are pretty slick.  At the tactical level, I don't think there is anything that attempts to simulate C3 to a level approaching the realistic, just simulating the communications network would go a long way to getting closer to a real command sim...

 

...however, most players, I would bet, are not remotely interested in something that would make it harder to play the game and make their unit's slower to react to player orders.  There are some people around though that are very interested in as realistic a command environment as possible and that's what I'm attempting to create with this system.

[General Jack Ripper]

Slim, first of all I'm glad to hear you are playing John, he is a smart guy and should give you a good fight,  Let me know how it goes.

 

Reading John's AAR's from way back in the day of the ROW Tournaments was one reason I bought Combat Mission in the first place.

I feel I owe it to the guy to get him back into the PBEM scene, he's been out for a long time.

[Bil Hardenberger]

In this next turn Warren is using Initiative for one of his tanks.. after the Initiative tasks are complete the unit will return to its originally assigned Task.

 

First he expands the Initiative hidden cells (top right plus sign)

 

Note that the task assigned for 1 M4A3 (the unit using Initiative) is Idle-Reserve

 

A - The INITIATIVE STARTS column entry for this unit is green and matches the CURRENT GAME TIME so there is no delay for this unit to use Initiative.  

B - Warren locks in the Initiative time

C - He assigns the Initiative Tasks - in this case he wants the unit to Move & Engage my Sherman and then Withdraw 

D - Warren enters any notes required... note that the second Task, Withdraw is not necessary for a shoot and scoot.. simply indicating it in the COMMENTS column is sufficient

E - I am trying to figure out why I included the ENDS NLT entry ... I think I will remove it, as the Initiative Task, though it should be a quick diversion from the original Task, should not be restricted.. I think what I wanted to ensure is that the player has to be forced to end the Initiative Task(s) at some point and to reinforce the temporary nature of such orders... please let me know your thoughts on this.

 

Finally, Warren gives the orders in the game, he must give the full order, including the spot he wants his unit to open fire from, and the waypoint(s) he wants to Withdraw to.

 

CLICK THE IMAGE TO ENLARGE

Edited July 13, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger

[Bil Hardenberger]

I think we have shown most aspects of this system, so will probably end this game soon so we can try it in a real scenario.  

 

I will be finishing up the Excel tutorial, but really this should be simple to use as all of the entries you need to make are either drop downs or very simple in execution.

 

I will also be bundling this training scenario and the workbooks for you so you can try it out yourselves in pre-set conditions.

 

If there are any outstanding questions or concerns, please let me know.

[General Jack Ripper]

I will be finishing up the Excel tutorial, but really this should be simple to use as all of the entries you need to make are either drop downs or very simple in execution.

 

Good to hear Bil.

I was trying to edit the workbook using Excel to expand the number of slots to cover up to a battalion sized force. Basically I want to make a blank workbook large enough to cover pretty much any size formation I could have, but lack of skill in Excel is hampering my efforts.

[Bil Hardenberger]

SLIM, I will be posting a workbook template, one for the US and one for the Germans... after that it'll be a simple cut and paste operation to build it to whatever size and configuration you like... stay tuned.

[Bulletpoint]

 

...however, most players, I would bet, are not remotely interested in something that would make it harder to play the game and make their unit's slower to react to player orders.  There are some people around though that are very interested in as realistic a command environment as possible [..]

 

I think a system like this would be perfect as an additional (and optional!) "difficulty" setting. Everybody wins.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[General Jack Ripper]

SLIM, I will be posting a workbook template, one for the US and one for the Germans... after that it'll be a simple cut and paste operation to build it to whatever size and configuration you like... stay tuned.

 

Woohoo!