Question...I thought the TOW missile could engage targets other than armor.

[markus544]

The tried to use the ground based TOW missile launcher against personnel inside buildings..They would only engage the enemy with small arms fire, no TOW launched.  Am I missing something.....???

[Apocal]

The tried to use the ground based TOW missile launcher against personnel inside buildings..They would only engage the enemy with small arms fire, no TOW launched.  Am I missing something.....???

 

The AI in this game tries to save the ATGMs for actual armor. That's why I asked for a Target Heavy command.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Apocal

[MikeyD]

TOW 2B is basically useless against anything but tanks. Two down-firing platter charges, overflight profile. There isn't even a contact fuse.

[Codename Duchess]

TOW 2B is basically useless against anything but tanks. Two down-firing platter charges, overflight profile. There isn't even a contact fuse.

I'm going to go with 12 lbs of explosives going off in your face attached to a screaming missile are going to cause a bad day no matter what you're in, especially in a confined space like a building.

[Bahger]

Hm, this might answer my question re. why my Bradleys never seem to fire their TOWs; I am facing APCs but not tanks in my current PBEM.  Can anyone comment on that?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Bahger

[dan/california]

25mm APDSect will pretty much thru and thru any thing in the game except MBTs, its faster on target, they have more of it, and APS is irrelevant.  Rounds going clean thru your vehicle tend to muck up your gunnery. Except at very long range the Bushmaster is probably the better choice.  There are always cases where the choice is wrong, happens in the real world, as well.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

In practice the only thing the TOW is supposed to be used on is tanks, and tank-like targets.  Anything less than a tank is something the 25 MM will eat up.  You see them get shot at buildings a fair bit in Iraq, but that was more of a lack of any other use for TOWs and availability of platform and munition than a standard use. 

[Bahger]

Good to know, gents.  I am impressed by the game's strict adherence to real-world logic in this instance.  And you are right, those 25mm shells have been messing up Rooskie APCs from a considerable distance.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Bahger

[mikeCK]

I would like to be able to target buildings with the javelin though. Too bad there is no direct attack mode in the game. I had a squad armed with a javeline come under fire from a full squad in the 2nd floor of a nearby building. Would have been nice to pop smoke, split off an armored team, move it over and out a missile into the window

[Nerdwing]

You sure as hell could in CMSF.  Are you no longer able?

[kuri]

I would like to be able to target buildings with the javelin though. Too bad there is no direct attack mode in the game. I had a squad armed with a javeline come under fire from a full squad in the 2nd floor of a nearby building. Would have been nice to pop smoke, split off an armored team, move it over and out a missile into the window

I've certainly seen my infantry engage a building with Javelin direct attack mode, happened in Objective Delta a few days ago.

Edited March 12, 2015 by kuri

[Codename Duchess]

I'm pretty sure if you use the Target command, they'll use javelins. I have the problem of my infantry squads wasting them on infantry when I use target. Maybe it was too close? If memory serves you need 50m.

[MikeyD]

"You see them get shot at buildings a fair bit in Iraq"

 

TOW 2A still used a HEAT warhead, direct flight profile and contact fuse. Plus the Pentagon retrofitted some (perhaps 500?) older TOW rounds with a squash-head HE round. Because TOW Stryker was being used for close infantry support until MGS became available. Close infantry support TOW was often used on the cusp of minimum arming distance, basically firing the round across the street into a building.

[markus544]

I know the nasty little Sadam boys were blown up by TOW missiles when they got cornered. Too good of an end for those two jerks. They were holed up in some building

[Sublime]

Yeaaa that was a helluva.gunfight.remember that

[jtsjc1]

I would guess also due to the cost of a Javelin rocket the military would rather see it used on a valuable armored target rather than a building that might just have a few guys in it.  Now if those few guys all had RPGs then maybe the Javelin takes them all out with part of the bldg.

[dan/california]

One of the things the game has been making clear for ages is that recoilless rifles make a ton of sense for infantry support weapons.  With a modern sight and airbursting round the 106mm would be truly nasty.  The cost per round is probably one percent of a Javelin even with a very fancy fuse.  If you side by sided the two on the Hummer replacement you would only have to save one missile to cover the cost.  The Javelin is a better missile anyway.  Staying in your firing position for the TOW's time if flight is more or less suicidal against first rate opposition.

Edited March 12, 2015 by dan/california

[mikeCK]

I wouldn't think it would be suicide. First the guys have to see the missile fired and in a combat zone inside a buttoned up in the tank that's not the easiest thing to do. You also have to identify that the missile has been fired with enough time left for you to bring weapons to bear on the operator. secondly I believe some of the newer generation tow missiles are no longer wire-guided

[Codename Duchess]

I wouldn't think it would be suicide. First the guys have to see the missile fired and in a combat zone inside a buttoned up in the tank that's not the easiest thing to do. You also have to identify that the missile has been fired with enough time left for you to bring weapons to bear on the operator. secondly I believe some of the newer generation tow missiles are no longer wire-guided

The W in TOW stands for wire guided, so all TOWs have wires. They are a type of SACLOS missile which essentially means they need the operator to track the target the whole time. There are benefits and downsides of this, including the need to stay in place. There are other ATGMs that do not have this constraint, but true fire and forget man portable systems are exceedingly rare (Javelin is the only one I can think of right away).

Additionally, there are all types of sensors out there to detect and warn of launched missiles. Stealth is definitely not a sure thing in the modern battlefield regarding ATGMs

[SgtHatred]

The W in TOW stands for wire guided, so all TOWs have wires.

 

Not anymore.

 

[Codename Duchess]

I stand corrected. Even then, it still appears to require command guidance from the launcher so he's just as vulnerable. This would just prevent the various wire faults possible.

[MikeyD]

Ha ha, the music on that Raytheon TOW video was really... well... dramatic.

You look in-game and you see TOW launcher's got the big new wireless guidance box. One of the last items to get textured before the game released, actually.

[mikeCK]

edit

Edited March 13, 2015 by mikeCK

[mikeCK]

Having a sensor detect a launched a missile and then finding it and putting weapons on to that target is a lot more difficult than it sounds especially in that hectic confusing battlefield

It's not so easy as new weapon shot at 2 o'clock, identify, put weapon on target, fire and kill shooter before missile hits. It's just far too quick for that which is why the tow was a very effective missile system.

Not to mention the only sensors I know that detect ATGmissile launches are the close in defense systems which are designed to take out the missile they don't necessarily detect a missile launch 800 m away when it launched

Edited March 13, 2015 by mikeCK

[dan/california]

If the APS stops it, the thing you were trying to kill knows your bearing.  Thats a problem.  Being able to duck and run the instant your missile is away is a good thing.  So is being able to start acquiring the next target.