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Can't get Trigger to work in QB Map


Cpl Steiner
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Do AI Triggers actually work in QB Maps? I am designing a map for use in a scenario and just for fun I decided to turn it into a Quick Battle map to see how it looked with units on.I made it into a "Red Assault" type battle and created a Blue Terrain Objective of type AI Trigger (enemy) and then added Order 2 to Blue Group 1, with the Setup "leave" conditions set to between 0:00:00 and 2:00:00 and "wait for" set to the trigger I had created. When I tried the map as Red in Scenario Author mode, the Blue side just moved off straight away, without waiting for my own men to activate the trigger.

 

In case there was something funny about Group 1 in QBs I changed the map so that it was Group 2 that had this triggered order and tried again. Same thing happened again - when Blue units were randomly assigned to "A2" they immediately left their Setup zone without being triggered by my approaching Red force.

 

I hope I'm just doing something wrong and this isn't a bug but I just can't get it to work. Any ideas?

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I don't have CMBS but I've just randomly cracked open a QB map in CMRT and there are triggers in one of the AI plans.  It would be strange if this functionality was not ported across to CMBS.  I'm not a black belt on triggers yet but your problem might lie with the fact that you are trying to trigger from setup - might be worth a rummage around the manual.

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Well, I give up! I cannot get it to work. I have tried all possible combinations of timings and it seems clear to me that the "leave after" setting is the ONLY thing that the AI unit takes any notice of. If "leave after" is set to 0:00 they will immediately move out of their Setup zone; even though the enemy is miles away from their trigger objective. If "leave after" is set to 10:00 they will move out of their Setup zone after exactly 10:00 minutes have elapsed, regardless of the fact that the enemy have been parked on their trigger objective for the previous 8 or 9 minutes.

 

I would love someone to make a very simple test QB map and see if they get the a same result as me.

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I'll try this again:

You MUST set The Timer for the earliest possible setting you THINK the Trigger COULD be triggered. Then Set the Latest setting to the Latest time you would WANT the AI to move on it's own. Or you can just look at any of the QB Maps and SEE what I'm gettingat.

The QB Maps DO Trigger when the trigger line is reached. They are not the problem.

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Map is "Red Assault"

 

Blue Terrain Objective 1 is "AI Trigger (Enemy) called "Trig1" and is a filled rectangle just short of a village occupied by Blue.

 

Blue AI Plan 1, Group 1, has two orders, Setup and Order 2

 

Setup order has "Exit between 0:00 and 3:00:00 Wait For Trig1

 

Order 2 is an area on the edge of the village facing Red's approach

 

Expected Result: Blue waits indefinitely until enemy (Red) units enter Blue's Trig1 terrain objective

 

Actual Result: Blue immediately leaves Setup and moves to Order 2 area.

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You set the timer to leave any time between immediately and two hours. Triggers are time sensitive first, movement to the trigger line second.

 

I'll try this again:

You MUST set The Timer for the earliest possible setting you THINK the Trigger COULD be triggered. Then Set the Latest setting to the Latest time you would WANT the AI to move on it's own. Or you can just look at any of the QB Maps and SEE what I'm gettingat.

The QB Maps DO Trigger when the trigger line is reached. They are not the problem.

 

Maybe I'm being dense, but does this mean that the AI can move based on the time condition being met even before the trigger is actually tripped (e.g., if I set the earliest time to 0:00 and have a terrain trigger, the unit can still move at 0:00 even though the trigger hasn't been tripped yet)?

 

The CM Engine Manual 3.01 states on pp. 104-105:

 

 

The first time tells the AI to NEVER start the Order until that time even if the Trigger is tripped.  The second time tells the AI to NEVER start the Order later than that time even if the Trigger is not tripped.  The time period between the first and second settings is when the Order is paused waiting for the Trigger to be tripped.

If you want a Group to always wait for a Trigger to be tripped leave the first time to 00:00 and set the second timer to something greater than the scenario's maximum game time.

 

It would seem that either I'm misunderstanding something or one of these is incorrect.

Edited by astano
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Setup order has "Exit between 0:00 and 3:00:00 Wait For Trig1

 

The triggers and timers are a little tricky.  It almost always takes me a few tries before I get one working the way I want it to.  When I read your post I noticed the above reference setup and a trigger.  This reminded me of the below from the game manual.  Kind of hard to be sure since I can't actually see what your doing but maybe this is the problem?  Hope it helps.

 

This is from the CMBS manual page 104.  My bold.
 
Setting up a Trigger
Triggers are always set up first and then linked to specific Orders. A Trigger can be used by as many Orders in as many Friendly Groups as you want, but an Order can only be assigned to use one Trigger. Setup can never be used as a Trigger and the last Order of a Group can never be triggered.
 
 
Edit: I think I always have at least three parts to a series of orders when a trigger is involved.
Setup: Where the unit starts on the map, no trigger.  It moves on a timer to the 1st order location.
1st order: This location / order has a trigger to move to the location of the 2nd order.
2nd order: No trigger (in this example it is the last order) This is the destination of where the unit responds to when triggered.  
Edited by MOS:96B2P
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Well, I still think there is something "iffy" about triggers and QB maps as I tried a little experiement. I took the QB map I had created, added some units for both sides, and saved as a Scenario. I then played this scenario and this time the trigger worked. No other change except to add some units and save as a scenario instead of a QB map. I did not even assign units to AI groups (the scenario just defaulted them to "A1" or AI Group 1).

 

I would suggest people see if they can prove that AI triggers work in QBs as I am pretty sure my experiment proves the opposite.

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  • 1 month later...

same here, I have CMRT but I guess it doesn't make any difference from CMBS regarding QB triggers. I dig into the manual and I found this about QB : "All terrain objectives are converted to OCCUPY objectives automatically" . But if terrain triggers don't work why are they in the QB maps???!!

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"...to between 0:00:00 and 2:00:00"

 

Ah, there's your problem. Those times are for *if the trigger isn't tripped*. So the game takes you at your word and move out at 0:00. If instead you had put 0:20:00 and 2:00:00 the AI would have either moved out once the trigger was tripped or started out after 20 minutes. Whichever happened first.

 

The new-look AI orders are less tolerant of zeroed-out AI times then earlier. It prefers either a trigger or a hard movement number

Edited by MikeyD
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Ah, there's your problem. Those times are for *if the trigger isn't tripped*. So the game takes you at your word and move out at 0:00. If instead you had put 0:20:00 and 2:00:00 the AI would have either moved out once the trigger was tripped or started out after 20 minutes. Whichever happened first.

 

The new-look AI orders are less tolerant of zeroed-out AI times then earlier. It prefers either a trigger or a hard movement number

 

Well, that seems not to be true. I did a test, setting the timer between 40 and 50 and made the enemy troops to hit the trigger terrain after about 5-6 minutes after the start of the scenario. The AI group simply sat "in situ". Besides, the manual is very clear about it saying that:

   " The first time tells the AI to NEVER start the Order until that time even if the Trigger is tripped.  The second time tells the AI to NEVER start the Order later than that time even if the Trigger is not tripped.  The time period between the first and second settings is when the Order is paused waiting for the Trigger to be tripped.If you want a Group to always wait for a Trigger to be tripped leave the first time to 00:00 and set the second timer to something greater than the scenario's maximum game time."

 

So Steiner must be right and the triggers in the Quick Battles are broken... or there is some weird trick not mentioned in the manual.  

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So Steiner must be right and the triggers in the Quick Battles are broken... or there is some weird trick not mentioned in the manual.  

 

Thanks for your support. I am pretty sure they are broken but there is an easy test. Find a QB map that ships with the game that has triggers and play a QB with map selection on, select that map and play it in Scenario Author Test mode. As you rightly point out, the manual is clear about what you have to do to get triggers to work and it is not the same as what the posters who swear blind that they work are advising.

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