A Question for Bill Hardenberger: how do not be overwhelmed when things start happening all at once?

[apoll]

Hello Bill. Got CM:BS yesterday, to go with my CM:RT. This question is, however, not restricted just to BS, but also my efforts to master RT. I get that this sim is unforgiving of sloppy tactics and such, and that I must use real world tactics and SOPs. I was an officer in the Australian army, in armour, and received a really good education on tactics, estimates etc. I get the 'one foot on the ground' and over watch and other concepts, and to the best of my ability, try and apply what I did in the army leading tank and recon troops etc. Yet, I really suck at this sim! I'm so bad it's embarrassing. I routinely get my arse handed to me...against Russians in 1944 or 2017. Doesn't matter. It is as if I never had any education in tactics. My carefully planned out advance, two up, one back, falls into a chaotic mess when contact occurs. When everything starts to happen at once, I get overwhelmed and my pixel truppen die in large numbers. My question to you is how do you stop being overwhelmed when things start to happen in the game? You use the pause button a lot? I try that, but still can't get across the micro management that needs to happen. Or does it? Grateful any advice on this front, as I am trying to master this thing to be good enough to go multiplayer...I would just embarass myself at present!

Thanks very much in advance.

Regards,

Apoll

[Jim1954]

I'm not Bil, but to me, it sounds like you are fighting the games in Real Time. If you are, and I believe it is the out-of-the-box default setting, try playing the game in wego mode instead. Turn based makes it a lot easier to get your head around all of the things that are happening at once. 

[mvp7]

We-go is the way. It often takes me 5-20 minutes depending on the mission size to plan and view just 1 minute of the game time. It's also much easier to follow what is happening on the entire front in the we-go as you can review the action as many times as you want.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Apoll, yes it does sound like you are playing real time... I never play in real time, only wego.  I too suggest you play that way.  There is way too much going on in most scenarios to play real time, which I would only ever play in a platoon sized battle.

 

You need the time to take stock of all aspects of the battle.. you can only do that in wego mode for anything larger than a platoon.  In wego you can rewind each turn, watch the enemy UI contacts and determine movement paths, intent etc.  Happy to go into more detail, but it sounds like you know what you are doing, only need to remember that you are playing as every commander at every echelon, from platoon leader, to company, to battalion commanders, all the way down to individual team leaders.  You need to be able to jump into each of their shoes.. not possible in real time.

 

Hope that helps some!

Edited February 7, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger

[Sublime]

Plus turn based is essential for large scenarios. you can replay awesome or critical moments, see diffferfent angles, and different 'fronts' or sectors.

[womble]

Or you could spam the pause button in RealTime.

[antaress73]

What i like in real time is that you can apply tactics or react faster( especially in black ses) like when your first tank goes boom you can have thé others manually pop smoke instead of losing two or three others before the 1 min ends) .. Shoot and scoot also is doable in real time.. But big battles are difficult .. Pause button is your friend but you miss a lot of the drama and detail and that's 60% of the fun of CM

[Melchior]

I play both real time and WeGo depending on scenario size. For medium or small scenarios I actually think real time is much more practical because I want second-by-second control. TBH real time would work great for all sizes if it only had an instant replay function or short term recorder. Without that you're often left bewildered as to exactly what transpired where the camera wasn't pointed. 

 

I mean it worked for baseball. 

Edited February 7, 2015 by CaptHawkeye

[db_zero]

What Bill described is a problem for many RT games. Too much to do and a clickfest. You would have multiple layers of command and a staff handling the different branches like infantry, armor, artillery, ADA, airpower and naval forces in real life. That's one the reason why you so often see the bull rush tactics and other odities.

 

There are ways around this, if designers are careful. Command Naval Operations works because you can set the time to 1 second and faster. Yes you are doing the task that in real life would be done by a huge staff, but because you can not only pause, but also slow down the time it works out well in practice.

 

Perhaps if the time could be scaled or slowed down it might mitigate some of the RT issues, but that may not be practicle. Some battle are fun to try out in RT. For me the smaller ones and ones where I'm the defender and have to defend a fixed position seem to work out well.

[apoll]

Thanks to all who have replied. Very much appreciated. Well, yes, I always play real time; you got it first time, Bil. I think I sort of know what to do, or at least, what should be done, but it does not pan out that way; big gap between knowing what to fo theoretically, and actually making it happen I find! I have always used real time because in my view, that is the most realistic. But, then again, as someone pointed out to me before, realistic would be to have lots of other commanders shouldering the decision load. It gives against the grain, but I am going to give WEGO a go as suggested, and see if my performance improves. As everyone has intuited, the nub of the problem is having one's attention fractured in the event of contact, and having to try and deal with multiple events at once. Even pausing the sim, it is....well, as I said, overwhelming.

Thanks again Bil and everyone else for your advice. Great community here...

Regards,

Apoll

[Jim1954]

You will see a marked improvement in your game play experience. Plus once you become proficient at wego and you have an idea of what the overall way that the game units interface in game terms, you may find it is not as difficult to play real time. And the absolute most important thing that really befuddled me at first was visibility. I couldn't tell jack diddly squat about what was happening. Then I figured out that toggling the full tree foliage off at certain times helped immeasurably. Often times, it's the simple things that make the biggest difference.

Don't be too disappointed if you do not succeed right away.  The learning curve  is fairly steep on this game. When I started Gaj told me it took him double digit games to start getting a feel for the mechanics and all of the little tricks that will make the difference between winning and just surviving. And I find it very true.

And most of us had less than stellar outings the first up against an opponent who thinks back. Once you go H2H though, it's just not the same playing against the AI. 

[db_zero]

Just tried August Morning on RT. Lots of fun, but I lost. Don't know if one of the mods I'm using, but a couple of small grass fires got started as a result of enemy small arms fire. Makes me wonder if incendeary rounds are modeled.

[apoll]

Thanks Jim1954 for your advice and comments. Much appreciated. Yes, I hope it does improve; exercise in frustration at the moment. I think I'm doing the right thing but just get overwhelmed. I will report back progress so others who have the same issue can draw some comfort and inspiration. Great sim though....merciless in the modern context.

Regards,

Apoll

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Nobody is stopping you from pausing the game at any time to examine the situation and issueing new orders. It is not cheating. You just have to decide when the decision points are if you are playing in real time. Remember you are acting as a combat team or battalion commander in the larger games. I find i helpful to zoom out to get a better overview of the overall situation.at least sometimes.  

 

My advice would be to start on the easier difficulty levels at first to gain experience with the game. If you have not played CM at all before then start with he smaller actions as well whle you learn ther tacics. Maybe play a few platon or company size games first while you figure out the tactics, then start gaming the bigger battles, eventually graduating o the most realistic "Iron" level.

[Wodin]

WEGO..helps loads.

[Daroc]

What i like in real time is that you can apply tactics or react faster( especially in black ses) like when your first tank goes boom you can have thé others manually pop smoke instead of losing two or three others before the 1 min ends) .. Shoot and scoot also is doable in real time.. But big battles are difficult .. Pause button is your friend but you miss a lot of the drama and detail and that's 60% of the fun of CM

Off topic - The difference in stopping the action to intervene when ambushed is important - it amounts to losing 1 maybe 2 as compared to the whole enchilada.  With the added bonus of losing it all without knowing where and what killed the units.  The turn ends when all the units are destroyed hehe.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Daroc

[apoll]

Well, to report back... I tried a quick battle with a U.S. rifle company in a probe mission on mixed forest/town terrain. I have to say that already WEGO has made a huge difference. I am no longer overwhelmed, but can develop my tactics properly. In this case, I sent my recon forward through the forest and they detected 3 BTRs in a farm hamlet, and some troops. I guessed elements of a dismounted mech inf platoon. I moved a platoon to the flank and those wonderful Javelins took out the BTRs. I then crumped them with mortars, and moved up the second platoon to an LD in the forest ready to assault while the flanking platoon laid down covering fire. More enemy from two rear copses moved forward to take up the rapidly developing firefight with the flanking platoon; they had probably used a classic red defensive tactic of one up, two back, and the firefight was sucking in the two rear sections. My third platoon moved to my other flank on the forest edge to watch out for any reinforcements coming the side; all clear so far. At this stage, I have just launched the platoon attack from the forest. Going well so far; casualties are so far light. I expect to be artilleried or mortared once I have secured the position so I will push off it quickly and take up a defensive position to work out what's next. There must be at least another platoon somewhere in the village, with BTRs and maybe even tank support. My only concern at this point us how to resupply my pixel truppen; the flanking platoon has spent quite a lot of ammo in the firefight. Anyone got any ideas on how to resupply? Or am I stuck with what I got?

Apoll

[womble]

My only concern at this point us how to resupply my pixel truppen; the flanking platoon has spent quite a lot of ammo in the firefight. Anyone got any ideas on how to resupply? Or am I stuck with what I got?

Unless you've got some vehicles somewhere then you're stuck with what you've got. It sounds like quite a big, mixed force scenario, so you probably do have vehicles that your platoon can mount (might have to split the squads so they fit), you can use the Acquire command (on the Special) tab to pick up more bullets and bombs from those vehicles. The ammo that the vehicle is carrying is shown on the unit information pane at the middle bottom.

[Jock Tamson]

RT with pauses (lots of them) is perfectly playable, but I tend to think it makes it too easy against the AI.

[Amizaur]

I hope we'll see an option for shorter WEGO turns (like 30s) someday... Full one minute is too long sometimes in modern fast-going battles, that's why so many people tend to play RT to have better control.

Shorter turns would solve this problem.