First Impressions of in-game Equipment

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

I figured this would be a good place to hang impressions of some of the new for CMBS hardware for folks who are playing now (or like me, have stopped playing to eat/let fingers depart from mouse operating position).

 

 

1. Vehicle Air Burst is brutal.

 

Russia definitely has an advantage in the sheer proliferation of airbursting rounds.  It makes facing down BMP3s potentially messy with infantry, and tanks just as perilous.

 

On the other hand the US airburst capable platform is Odin level optics and sees all.  Seems well suited to killing ATGM teams and the like

 

2. ATGMs have been shaken up a bit.  

 

ERA is much more common, and APS makes what used to be a lot of sure-shot dead tank shots into total whiffs.  This seems to hurt RU/UKR more than the US.  Javelins are still something to hide under the bed from though.  

 

3. BMP3s are pretty much rolling JDAMs

 

Seriously.  They almost always wind up at the bottom of self generated craters if struck by large weapons.  It's rare to see one merely knocked out, the default hit is total vehicle, crew, and passenger loss.  From my experience so far the APS is the only protective package worth the effort.   On the other hand, the 100 MM is an awesome tool, and the ATGMs are as good as any of the other standard vehicle ATGMs in the game.  Might be better if you keep them back, feel forward with tanks and dismounted infantry, and then call them forward to deal with threats.

 

4. Precision fires is kind of cool

 

Haven't quite achieved the lethality I'd hoped for.  Mostly called for the US stuff, think part of it has just been a matter of how I employ fires.

 

5. Ukrainian tanks are a mixed bag.

 

They're both the bottom of the pecking order, and if you're playing as Russia, still capable of delivering very nasty surprises.  If I had to tier them against CMSF, they're comparable to the high end Syrian T-72s, with the Russian tank falling into the less capable NATO platform range.  The T-90 models especially are definitely superior, but it isn't the M1A2 SEP vs T-55 sort of superior.  

 

6. M1A2 SEP is still a monster.  

 

With the APS it certainly needs effort to KO.  On the other hand, I've had more than a few knocked out frontally from T-90s and the like, or badly damaged by 30 MM fire, or lesser tank rounds.  It's advantage is usually it gets the first shot in most engagements, hits in the 80-90% range (conservatively, I've certainly seen them miss at least!), and has almost universal lethality against what it hits.  Best I've seen a T-90 get off with was having surviving crewmen after it was knocked out.

 

7. ADA Is a pain.  Even MANPADs

 

Seriously.  If you're a CMSF NATO person used to having your way with airstrikes, prepare for sadface.  If you're expecting the Russian Air Force to nimbly pave your way to victory, again, expect some sadface.  

 

Best tool so far is if you know about where the enemy MANPADs are, dropping an artillery barrage to suppress them during your strike.  This requires some good optics, situation awareness, or really good guessing though.  

[sburke]

pretty good summation

 

Regarding precision fires.  Mortars are not as accurate.  I think even Paladin may have been toned down a little.  Still, they can make life very miserable.

[MikeyD]

Good, bad, or indifferent, I still have a soft spot for T-64. Its rather like 75mm Sherman is CMBN, when it gets a kill against a superior opponent you stand and cheer! 

Edited January 31, 2015 by MikeyD

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

T-64 is good stuff.  Like the lower tier REDFOR tanks in CMSF were only a threat if you were really not that good (or just new to realistic games), or really, really, deeply unlucky.  T-64 while being the bottom of the tank stack, is the bottom by a much narrower margin than I think CM players might be used to.  It'll turn even fairly modest mistakes into a right mess if you're not careful. 

[A Canadian Cat]

Yeah those BMP3 s are both fearsome to face and scary to be too close too. I tend to play with their infantry leading and bring them up to support when needed. Their have a lot of fire power that is for sure.

A note on APS, make sure your infantry give your AFVs some space. The first time I lost most of a squad to an APS system triggering I was very bummed.

[niall78]

Playing through the first Russian campaign mission. Here's my first impressions I'm a WW2 grog but a CMSF player as well :

 

- Precision fire by off board artillery is lethal from what I can see - it will drop rounds right in the pickle barrel.

 

- Helicopters rock. Again one shot - one kill. Although I did draw an air to ground missle from an unknown position that missed.

 

- It's strange getting used to tanks getting first shot hits while on the move at nearly 2,000 metres. It seems - even though I'm facing second-rate gear that the first to see an opponent gets the first hit and probably the kill.

 

- The range of infantry weapons is so cool - auto-grenade launchers, scoped rifles, RPG's, ATGM's, underslung grenade launchers, MANPADS - the list is endless. It'll take me months to find the best tactical uses for a lot of these modern weapons.

 

- Lethality is insane even at very long ranges with these new systems. You get seen - you get killed. Big step up from WW2 where lethality dropped sharply after 100 metres in most cases - now even basic small arms equiped infantry are wiping out personnel targets at 500+ metres.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Addendum to my earlier precision fires statement:

 

Precision mortars are a bit of a wash.  They're not a lot more precise than regular mortar shoots (for the US at least) without the sort of killing power of a full barrage.

 

Precision artillery however is murder on armored vehicles.

 

Additionally:

 

At least for the US in the defense, dismounting your FO teams is a must.  It really lets you split the ability to call down artillery/air assets super-quick.  Also the detection threshold for the dismounted team is insane.  It's not shooting, and unless the enemy starts just popping every tall building, or hilltop, he's going to struggle to kill them.  Also the FIST vehicle itself is still able to accomplish calling for fires very effectively.  I tend to outpost the FIST team with some infantry for security someplace with good observation (but often marginal cover/concealment for AFVs), while keeping the FIST vehicle with my main line of resistance. 

 

All US Bradleys carry a Javelin and reloads (with the exception of the FIST model).  Letting this sink in for a second, the US Armored Cavalry Platoon (as in from the Cavalry Squadron, not the Battalion scouts) has six Bradleys, each with a three man scout team.  

 

So in so many words, the Scout Platoon can throw out 12 TOW-2Bs in short order (six vehicles+two missiles in the launcher), and also have up to six Javelin teams operating at once.  Even a single section of them is pretty fearsome (two brads+scout teams) in terms of AT capabilities.  While it's a scout platoon, if you're thinking in terms of defending, it's pretty potent to rounding out armored forces, or giving more AT capabilities to infantry.   The scout team is also tiny and will often be shooting missiles before you see it (and because it's the Javelin, your APS and ERA don't help very much).

 

It's a very frustrating experience to see four to six Javelins in the air to put it mildly, and having that be your first sign of contact.  

[speedyglides]

What has been commented in this forum is completely true: lethality is brutal. In CM WWII games things are cooked somewhat slowly. You have some surprises, but usually you need some turns for getting results or being kicked in the ass. In CMBS things get solved in just one turn, sometimes a few seconds. This game is for impatient people who can not wait to see the result of their actions . 

 

All in all, good technical quality and good stability just after launch. Extremely fun to play. Very educative to update our WWII mental models.

Edited January 31, 2015 by speedyglides

[Frankster65]

One of the neatest things I saw last night while just play testing a quick battle was not a tank or PC but rather a lone grenadier. It was one of my Ukrainian grenadiers firing his AK-74, then the animation went to him firing the grenade launcher attached. The detail of the artwork and animation was just so cool. Beautiful stuff.

[MikeyD]

Cassio (Web Wing) wore himself out working on those new soldier/weapon interface animations. A Herculean task. He deserves all credit.

[Rinaldi]

Good, bad, or indifferent, I still have a soft spot for T-64. Its rather like 75mm Sherman is CMBN, when it gets a kill against a superior opponent you stand and cheer! 

 

Instant bragging rights if you get a BV through  a battle with a few kills to its name!

 

Thanks for this write up, I haven't had time to purchase it yet and I'm trying to gobble up every bit of information I can.