ColSaid Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I just finished reading a thread by Michael Emrys, back in May 2014.Its 8 pages back. Titled "Too many difficulty levels". Found it amusing, seeing how things are debated, by CM's Seniors, (I take it was before the manual went to print). I'm one that plays with the Manual close by, (printed). It got me to wondering if I have the right under standing of how the different "Levels" make the game easy- and- hard. Let me see it I have this right, (and I've just re read Skill Levels) . Easy is that the player will get all the information plus extra help, extra fast, (faster treating wounded and so on). While on up to Iron, you'll receive less and less extra help, (more and more like real life, (more or less) like in real life). That's my understanding of how it works, more or less. So is this correct ? And one other thing, is this happening with the AI's team too ? Does this hinder the AI, on any of the levels ? Will the AI always be running at its best, (I haven't gone very far reading in "The Editor") ? ColSaid Join date: Aug 2014 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Yes, the AI always fights under the same rules as the player. This can actually make Basic Training harder for the player, as the AI's artillery and mortars become extremely responsive, so you can't dodge their fire missions so readily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Not true. At iron level the AI does not have the same spotting /C2 challenges that the player does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 They really should change the wording for the description of iron. There is NO difference in spotting or C2 between elite and iron. Only difference is that in elite when you click on a squad you will see all the other teams while in iron you only see what the team really seems. IMHO iron is easier than elite because you can see what your men see 1:1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 There is NO difference in spotting or C2 between elite and iron. Not quite true. On Elite friendly units automatically spot each other when in LOS, while in Iron mode they have to pass a spot check, same as they do with enemy units. In practice this means that when a unit loses visual C2 it takes a little longer to reestablish it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 But on iron mode the AI does not do the friendly spotting check that the player does. This is a bit more forgiving for the AI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 But on iron mode the AI does not do the friendly spotting check that the player does. Did BFC say that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Yes. Was proven long ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 If you think about it, it kind of makes sense. BF does try to avoid penalizing the AI overly much. There are a lot of things suggested for CM that would just make the AI thoroughly incompetent. Bad enough now that it can't use area fire, smoke etc. If it had the same restrictions at Iron that a player has it would never be able to manage C2. I prefer playing in Iron as I have a better feel for what my units are experiencing in terms of isolation. I would however pass on that if the AI was facing the same penalties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Not quite true. On Elite friendly units automatically spot each other when in LOS, while in Iron mode they have to pass a spot check, same as they do with enemy units. In practice this means that when a unit loses visual C2 it takes a little longer to reestablish it. Hmm, I never thought about it this way. But you are quite right - then you have a (small) additional delay in regaining C2. I'll have to take a closer look next time. Never actually noticed it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 There are really only two skill levels in CM2: (1) those who only play against the AI, and (2) those who play H2H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Given the subtle effects of C2 and the fact that your troops will often succeed at their spotting check if they're in eligible LOS, the difference between the human and the AI is pretty negligible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Yes. Was proven long ago. I am curious as to how that was proven since it directly contradicts what Charles has said. Regardless of that... There are really only two skill levels in CM2: (1) those who only play against the AI, and (2) those who play H2H +1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 It is easy to check yourself. Just start a game on iron mode and ceasefire right away. Now you can go through all the enemy units and see their C2 status. You will see that units that some units that are not even in sight with each other still have the long range C2 indicator active (still in C2). I brought this up with Steve a long time ago and it was then revealed that the AI DOES NOT have the same C2 constraints as the player. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 ....the difference between the human and the AI is pretty negligible. You're kidding, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 You're kidding, right? No. I thought the context was pretty clear: the difference in the rules that are applied is confers a negligible advantage to the AI. That so-small-it-can't-be-measured advantage in no way makes the AI comparable to a human player. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 No. I thought the context was pretty clear: the difference in the rules that are applied is confers a negligible advantage to the AI. That so-small-it-can't-be-measured advantage in no way makes the AI comparable to a human player. I understand what you are saying now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 It is easy to check yourself. Just start a game on iron mode and ceasefire right away. Now you can go through all the enemy units and see their C2 status. You will see that units that some units that are not even in sight with each other still have the long range C2 indicator active (still in C2). I brought this up with Steve a long time ago and it was then revealed that the AI DOES NOT have the same C2 constraints as the player. I did try loading the last turn of a QB against the AI and looking through the AI's units. I was unable to find any examples of this behavior. If it does happen it apparently does not happen consistently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Maybe let a turn or two run before you cease. Keep trying. This is how iron mode has worked for the AI side since CMSF. The AI does not suffer the same penalty as a human. Confirmed by Steve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Maybe let a turn or two run before you cease. Keep trying. Perhaps I was not clear. This was at the end of the game, not the beginning. This is how iron mode has worked for the AI side since CMSF. The AI does not suffer the same penalty as a human. Confirmed by Steve. Maybe Steve and Charles need to have a talk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I tried again. This time I started a new QB on Iron, played 3 turns then cease fired. At first I thought I had found an example, but then realized that while the unit was out of LOS of his platoon HQ he did have LOS to his company HQ. There were quite a few AI units out of C2 altogether. I'm not sure what else to do. Clearly, AI units out of LOS of their HQ are quite capable of losing C2. If there are exceptions to this I do not know under which circumstances they occur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 It didn't mean that they have c2 when out of sight completely. I may not have been as detailed as I should have been. What I meant is that the los check for the AI is not nearly as harsh as it is for the human. They do not have to "spot" their own troops like the human players troops do while playing iron. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarre Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 does it mather ? it is tjust Ai. if its give litlebit more chalence in game that is tjust good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 It didn't mean that they have c2 when out of sight completely. I may not have been as detailed as I should have been. What I meant is that the los check for the AI is not nearly as harsh as it is for the human. They do not have to "spot" their own troops like the human players troops do while playing iron. Well that would be almost impossible to test. And not worth the effort, as others have pointed out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 It didn't mean that they have c2 when out of sight completely. I may not have been as detailed as I should have been. What I meant is that the los check for the AI is not nearly as harsh as it is for the human. They do not have to "spot" their own troops like the human players troops do while playing iron. Well that would be almost impossible to test. And not worth the effort, as others have pointed out. I have to admit that I interpreted what you said the same way @Vanir Ausf B did. Sounds like we should reverse the burden of proof and ask that @Lanzfeld find the quote form Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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