When suppression doesn't suppress

[Bulletpoint]

Sometimes, suppressed enemy squads will open fire once I get close enough.. what gives?

Situation:

I'm using a deployed machinegun to fire at an enemy in a hedgerow some 300 metres distant. The enemy squad has been under fire for around 8 minutes continuously. It's reached the point where the contact marker is half translucent, and I'm convinced that squad must have pulled back from the hedge. I even consider holding fire, but keep it going "just to be sure".

Then, as I send a squad up against the hedgerow 2-3 squares from the translucent contact marker, suddenly the hidden enemy squad opens up with their machinegun. What am I doing wrong? Are suppressed enemies only prevented from firing at distant targets, leaving them free to do close combat?

After the battle, I checked and the enemy is all "green". It's the first mission in the revised "Road to Montebourg" and I'm firing from the beach to the hedgerow.

[womble]

'Tis really hard to say without more detail, probably detail you can't supply because it'd be coming from the other side. Suppression, though, comes and goes. Sometimes the incoming slackens because of a reload or just arbitrary variation in RoF or aim point and the targets get a chance to get their heads up. That might not mean they fire at your distant MG, because they don't spot them, but they might have time to spot and engage the closer threat before becoming resuppressed. Or you might have gotten unlucky and made your dash just as the defenders were getting up to hightail it out of there, they saw you and decided to fire off a couple of bursts before leaving.

One thing I've learned is that there actually is such a thing as overkill when it comes to Suppression. If you pin them down so hard they can't run, you have to kill 'em all if you want to clear their position. I like Target Briefly a lot for this reason: a couple of elements for 15s will keep resuppressing the target until they get sick of it and break for the rear. The tougher the hombres you want to suppress, the more elements you have to lay on them, but giving them time to think about running is a Good Thing. I think I'd probably use the increased duration Target Briefly for similar purposes. It saves ammo too.

[sburke]

One thing I have learned is to approach the enemy from a different angle than my suppressing units. Seems to make all the difference in the world. The enemy units that aren't staying suppressed tend to be focused towards my firing units, getting blind sided seems to work really well and is ooooh so gratifying. In other words the suppression is primarily to allow you to maneuver, don't expect it to have turned the enemy into cowering blobs of jelly especially around hedgerows. Cowering behind a hedgerow essentially makes them almost invulnerable to direct small arms fire.

[Peregrine]

It is a good idea to have other units firing as well as MGs can pause to reload. On that mission particularly you have a lot of units so it is a good idea to have at least 2 units firing in addition to the squad that is assaulting the final part.

Also some of the German squads are only armed with SMGs (I think) which limits the range that they will open up at.

[Pak40]

Bulletpoint,

I've been bitten by this many times. I think the best way to think about it is that these units are only suppressed, not routed or panicked. A suppressed unit will certainly respond to a danger that's close to them if it sees the danger - it becomes a do or die situation. My big question about these types of situations would be: If a squad is supressed (lying on the ground) behind a hedgerow how can it see over the hedgerow wall to see the incoming assaulting squad?

Probably a good way to test this is create a simple map in the editor with two opposing forces behind hedgerows. Have one force dominant in size so that it suppresses the other. Play the scenario in test mode so that you can see if the suppressed unit keeps their head down while your units assault them. Maybe one of the suppressed enemy actually pops their head up from time to time. All it takes is one to see the oncoming assault and warn his squad.

[Rocky Balboa]

Sometimes, suppressed enemy squads will open fire once I get close enough.. what gives?

Situation:

I'm using a deployed machinegun to fire at an enemy in a hedgerow some 300 metres distant. The enemy squad has been under fire for around 8 minutes continuously. It's reached the point where the contact marker is half translucent, and I'm convinced that squad must have pulled back from the hedge. I even consider holding fire, but keep it going "just to be sure".

Then, as I send a squad up against the hedgerow 2-3 squares from the translucent contact marker, suddenly the hidden enemy squad opens up with their machinegun. What am I doing wrong? Are suppressed enemies only prevented from firing at distant targets, leaving them free to do close combat?

After the battle, I checked and the enemy is all "green". It's the first mission in the revised "Road to Montebourg" and I'm firing from the beach to the hedgerow.

Your support/suppressing element should continue to fire while your maneuver element is assaulting the target and continues to fire until the objective is taken.

Make sure your support element is using target light so they don't use HE attacks which can harm your maneuver element as it approaches the target. Small arms fire doenst affect your own troops.

When assaulting a hedgerow/building etc .... stop/pause your maneuver element briefly on your side of the wall. This will allow them to throw grenades before the final assault on the position.

[sburke]

Make sure your support element is using target light so they don't use HE attacks which can harm your maneuver element as it approaches the target. Small arms fire doenst affect your own troops.

I am not sure that is entirely true. My impression is while you don't take casualties, you can increase the suppression on your own troops. Just an impression I keep meaning to test. One more thing on the list.....

[AlexUK]

I am not sure that is entirely true. My impression is while you don't take casualties, you can increase the suppression on your own troops. Just an impression I keep meaning to test. One more thing on the list.....

Yup, almost certain this is the case (in fact so close to certain as to say definitely) - that is why one of the other poster's suggestions is so effective - assault from a different angle so as not to get suppressed by your own fire - made that mistake too many times....

However, if you approach from a different angle you then run the risk of moving into field of fire of unsuppressed enemy units - made that mistake too.....

[Bulletpoint]

Green troops will even suppress themselves if you order them to shoot at the adjacent action square. That happened to me too in this mission. I was up against a hedge and found a mortar nest on the other side. My guys quickly shot most of the enemy but one tried to surrender. I decided to see if I could target the now almost empty foxhole to make my troops throw grenades. They didn't throw any but started firing. Then their suppression meter climbed to halfway full and they all started covering from their own fire.

[Bulletpoint]

that is why one of the other poster's suggestions is so effective - assault from a different angle so as not to get suppressed by your own fire - made that mistake too many times....

This is exactly what I'm trying to do, but the supposedly suppressed position opens fire at my assault element coming in at an angle.

[sburke]

Green troops will even suppress themselves if you order them to shoot at the adjacent action square. That happened to me too in this mission. I was up against a hedge and found a mortar nest on the other side. My guys quickly shot most of the enemy but one tried to surrender. I decided to see if I could target the now almost empty foxhole to make my troops throw grenades. They didn't throw any but started firing. Then their suppression meter climbed to halfway full and they all started covering from their own fire.

That's actually kind of funny.

[womble]

Just because you can't spot the unit any more doesn't mean it's Pinned. Just that your units haven't regained the spot on the enemy as the individual elements take a break from Cowering. It probably is worth having a tinker with Scenario Author Mode so you can see what's happening on the other side of the hedge in a similar situation, because you might be assuming things that aren't quite so.