Choose your own troops tutorial?

[FroBodine]

Does a tutorial on choosing troops for quick battles exist anywhere, for any CMx2 game?

I am fairly clueless when it comes to WWII army compositions. I am having a hard time coming up with a good force mix without running out of points very quickly.

I select a medium sized quick battle. I then select an infantry battalion, and delete all companies except one. Is this the correct way to get an infantry company? Then I go to armour, and select a tank platoon (or whatever the default size is), and I am way negative in points already.

So, I instead go to single vehicle, and select a couple tanks. Is this the right way to do it? I'm sure I am going about it completely wrong, but I find I run out of points so fast, and I'm not sure what I even have. I realize I can select a larger force size at setup, but my point is I'm not sure what is the right way to select troops to have a decent chance at a battle.

I would love to read something that helps newbies walk through setting up a quick battle, or maybe there's a YouTube video of someone doing this?

Thanks!

[bobo]

Not the that I have seen one and I could use one. I use the make a suggestion button a fair bit. Keep hitting it and see what the computer suggests. That can be frustrating too.

I also will chose the battalion and then carve out units but usually end up with extra commanders and operations folks.

Scenarios are better?

bobo

[Apocal]

I select a medium sized quick battle. I then select an infantry battalion, and delete all companies except one. Is this the correct way to get an infantry company?

Yes.

Then I go to armour, and select a tank platoon (or whatever the default size is), and I am way negative in points already.

So, I instead go to single vehicle, and select a couple tanks. Is this the right way to do it? I'm sure I am going about it completely wrong, but I find I run out of points so fast, and I'm not sure what I even have.

That's one way of doing it, although I prefer to just go to a tank platoon and delete a few tanks, since its cheaper points-wise than buying attached vehicles. And speaking of "not sure what you have" are you aware you can expand the purchased forces menu to see individual squads and vehicles?

I realize I can select a larger force size at setup, but my point is I'm not sure what is the right way to select troops to have a decent chance at a battle.

I would love to read something that helps newbies walk through setting up a quick battle, or maybe there's a YouTube video of someone doing this?

(I'm assuming you're playing an attack, as the attacking side)

1. Use map preview if available, take a minute or two to figure if the map is going to tank-friendly or not, i.e. do you see a way to gainfully employ armor with minimal infantry support? Long lines of sight, overwatch positions, open terrain, few dead-zone for infiltration or ambush, etc.

2.

2a. For a tank friendly map, I buy a full medium tank battalion ("tank regiment [medium]" in Soviet parlance) first and pare it down to a single company, then add a company or so of infantry. If I'm still over points (~3000 for a medium attack, attacking side), I might strip a platoon from the infantry, then one or two tanks, which has always kept me within limits.

2b. For infantry-centric terrain, I go through the same process of stripping down to a infantry company that you do, usually keeping battalion mortars, more uncommonly battalion machine guns as well.

3.

3a. I don't generally bother with much artillery on tank-friendly maps, maybe a section or platoon of mortars for quick suppression of anti-tank guns before rushing tanks within LoS and pounding them. Tanks, employed intelligently, do most of what I wind up using artillery for (blasting dudes out of close or built-up terrain) except without the massive delay.

3b. For infantry-centric maps, it really depends, although I generally buy a set or two of TRPs, heavy mortar section or platoon above what comes with the infantry battalion, one or two medium howitzer batteries, etc. On some maps, I'll buy three sets of TRPs and twice as much artillery, including a heavy battery and just take the brakes off the rapetrain that way.

4. Sometimes I'll take a dedicated large-caliber HE thrower like SU-122 or StuH, for a map where I expect to be fighting in/around sturdy buildings, extensive field fortifications, etc. Engineers/sappers if I think there are going to be mines or I might need to blast my way into buildings. Attached TDs instead of turreted AFVs sometimes, if I want to save on points for somewhere else.

5. Leftover points get spent on recon cars, up-vetted snipers, attached MG and tank hunter teams, additional TRPs, low-quality AFVs etc.

Is that what you're looking for? Obviously I left out some stuff for competitive reasons, but the jist of it is a pretty toolkit for most situations.

[womble]

That's one way of doing it, although I prefer to just go to a tank platoon and delete a few tanks, since its cheaper points-wise than buying attached vehicles.

On points cost:

Each "Formation" you buy comes with a 50 point surcharge. Each "Individual Vehicle" you buy comes with a 15 point surcharge. So the break-even on pure points is between 3 and 4 vehicles. If you're getting 4 vehicles out of the given formation, it's cheaper to buy the formation and prune it down. If you're getting only three, it's cheaper to buy the single vehicles.

This ignores C2 considerations, namely that if you buy the formation you can have HQ vehicles and the vehicles in their own leg of the C2 tree. Conversely, if you buy individual vehicles, you can attach them at whatever level you want.

Note that many armoured formations also have other units that you might want to keep, like transport or mortars or specialist recon or pioneer sections which your selected infantry formation might lack.

[FroBodine]

Thank you for the comments so far. Yes, all of this is helpful to me.

womble - you mentioned buying individual vehicles and attaching them at whatever level you want. How do you attach individual vehicles to an existing C2 tree?

[umlaut]

An individual vehicle will always be attached to a C2 tree: You cannot purchase one if you dont have a formation selected in the column to the right. It will get attached to the one selected when you purchase.

[FroBodine]

Thank you, umlaut. So, is there a way to unattach/reattach to a different formation? Or do you just delete the vehicle and purchase it again if you happen to have the wrong formation selected, and you want to attach the vehicle to a different one?

[womble]

Thank you, umlaut. So, is there a way to unattach/reattach to a different formation? Or do you just delete the vehicle and purchase it again if you happen to have the wrong formation selected, and you want to attach the vehicle to a different one?

Exactly that. Drag'n'drop would be nice, but it's strictly limited to "Add to the HQ you have selected at the time you purchase the unit, and delete it if you get it wrong."

Don't forget that if you have "Typical" selected, the replacement addin might have different soft factors to the first.

[ScoutPL]

Some basics considerations:

For any attack you will need a DISMOUNTED FORCE to seize terrain. Usually at least three maneuver elements (a platoon with three squads, a company with three platoons). These can be tasked as Support by Fire (to suppress enemy locations, one or two locations at a time), Assault (to actually move into the target squares), and reserve/exploitation (to reinforce your assault element or push forward as the assault element consolidates). The exploitation element can then become the SBF once they make a new contact, the SBF becomes your new Assault, and the assault force (probably a little depleted and resting/rearming) becomes your reserve/exploitation force. Rinse and repeat. This same structure can be used at the platoon, company and battalion level. Always select to have your infantry armed with some man portable AT weapons (Pzchk or BZ)

If you are playing a scenario or QB with relatively open terrain than purchase armor along the same guidelines (three elements).

Also in the attack its good to have a MOUNTED FORCE. I usually stick with just a platoon for this. Most commonly I will buy a mech company with HTs and cut all the vehicles except for one platoons worth. The intent being the HTs are for moving your assault and/or reserve platoons across open ground. The vehicles (if you keep them protected) can be used to shuffle platoons forward. If you were to buy an entire mounted company you would invariably have 70% of your HTs sitting behind a treeline doing nothing.

Support the attack with a MOUNTED GUN element. Depending on what you think your opponent is buying and what the terrain is like this can be met with a few cheap HTs with infantry guns or AA guns mounted, all the way up to a couple Panthers or Jumbos. The primary purpose of this element is to provide suppression support to your infantry. Set them up in what we would call an Attack By Fire position (far enough back to be safe from hand held AT weapons) and have them pound known and suspected enemy positions as your other elements move into position. They can also be used to reduce positions that might be difficult to seize due to terrain (like the lack of a covered route to the target squares). Other added benefits: these can serve as "Fire Brigade" element that can move quickly from one area of the map to another to provide emergency suppression. Also, they serve as a mobile AT capability in infantry dominated scenarios.

Buy some mtrs or arty, as much as you can afford. For most medium QBs this will be a 105mm battery or a couple 81mm MTR platoons. These work well for providing suppression as well as disrupting and/or dislodging forces that may be in defilade to your ABF/SBF. If you plan on the use of smoke early you can be sure to conserve enough ammo to fulfill that requirement.

So for the offense (german):

Infantry dominated QB (my preferred, I just work out beforehand with my opponent to keep vehicle purchases at around 30% of the total).

Three element infantry force:

2 Rifle platoons

1 Rifle platoon with HTs (251s with a 251/10)

MG platoon to provide more suppression, can be moved in HTs like rifle platoons

Company HQ

Mounted gun element:

2x 251/9s

1-2x HT with AA capability

and/or PZIVs or PZVs depending on your preference and what you can afford

Fire support:

2x 81mm platoons (offboard)

Start with a PzGr bn (be sure to set veteran status, morale, fitness, etc before purchasing)

Delete everything except for one company. (Once you are down to one company you can delete all the BN HQ assets.)

At the bottom chose your preferences for vehicles, AT weapons etc in the company (make sure it is still highlighted when you make these selections.)

Delete all the vehicles within the company except for one platoon.

Follow the above advice (womble's) on choosing your armored vehicles.

Purchasing fire support is pretty straight forward.

Armor dominated QB:

Dismounted force: I usually go with just one rifle platoon with HTs so they can keep up with the tanks. Buy two if you can afford it (with or without HTs).

Mounted gun element: This actually becomes your three element maneuver force. Three tank platoons, reduced to 3-4 vehicles each depending on what you can afford. Purchase a tank battalion and reduce it to a company.

2x HT with AA capability. These are good for providing area suppression when standoff is available, as well as the AA aspect.

Fire support: the same as above.

The point is creating a combined arms team that should be capable of handling most threats. I would recommend making sure you have backups for each system as well. In other words, dont buy one Tiger when you can buy three PZIVs. Having only one unit cover down on a task (ABF, SBF, Assault) is extremely risky and a bad idea.

Getting to know how to manipulate the purchase screen just takes experience. There is a process that you should follow and once you figure it out you will find it extremely versatile.

For example, try purchasing all of your units as regulars, get the force you think you will need and then spend your remaining points upgrading your key units to veteran or crack. Its not necessary that every unit on the board have a crack rating and you will figure out which ones you can hedge on. This procedure allows you to get within a few points of your max as well.

If this proves helpful to some I will add another one covering the defense.

[MikeyD]

You might want to go into the editor itself if you just want to familiarize yourself with unit types. No points restrictions to get in your way. See how big a German battalion/company/platoon looks on a map. Check out the weapons distribution in a Russian infantry squad vs a SMG squad. Check what acquireables are carried by a Studebaker truck. See what shows up in September that wasn't available in June.

Familiarizing yourself with WWII units and learning how to manhandle QB force picker are two different skillsets.

[FroBodine]

All these comments are super helpful! ScoutPL - excellent, excellent summary. Yes, I would love to see more about the defense, if you have the time and inclination to keep going.

[ScoutPL]

Defense.

Three elements: A dismounted force to hold terrain, a dismounted reserve, and a mobile gun element.

For the mobile gun element, use the same guidance for the mobile gun platforms in the offense. A couple vehicles, strong enough to go toe to toe with what you believe your opponent has. Keep in mind this is your fire brigade element, the intent is not to take on the entire enemy tank force, but to reinforce the AT elements you already have along your MLR (main line of resistance). I would purchase these first, just to see what you have left to play with for points. You can always downgrade them later. These will probably be individual vehicle purchases.

Then study your map and look for good engagement areas (EA) for AT guns and HMGs. These are usually fairly open areas with relatively long LOS and lots of options for setting in defenses. Try not to pick defensive position locations that would be too obvious. (Say, for example, the copse of trees at the high water mark at Gettysburg.) Get a solid number of EAs in your head (usually 2-3 on a medium map) along with battle positions (BPs) to cover them (usually 1-2 per EA). Purchase forces to man battle positions to cover each engagement area. These should consist of an AT gun, a HMG, and some sort of infantry support for security (usually a squad or two). If you purchase the AT guns/HMGs individually you can assign them to the particular platoon HQ for that BP. It wont always work out but a good practice.

Then look for the other avenues of approach the enemy could use (and probably will after he discovers your EAs). Once again, usually 2-3 for a medium sized map. Cover these with infantry squad and platoon battle positions. Make sure the teams or squads within each BP can mutually support each other. Keep in mind areas that might be well suited to a minefield or a TRP. These are often the last well covered and concealed positions that an opponent may use prior to his assault. Running into a minefield or a well timed arty strike will definitely ruin his day. Be sure to place the MF where you can cover it by fire. An undefended minefield is a total waste of effort. Plan for a platoon or so as a reserve. Depending on the size of your map you may need to consider mounting them.

As you make these deliberations, keep a running tab. For example, we might have a need for three AT guns, three HMGs, three squads for security, and three more rifle platoons. One minefield.

So you can see right away thats a rifle company reinforced with another rifle platoon, an AT platoon and possibly some MGs depending on which Force you are playing.

Make that purchase (be sure to set your quality, fitness, etc.)

Buy your mines (usually just one purchase is enough).

Buy some arty. In the defense you can never have enough arty so dont be squeamish.

Consider buying some foxholes. Prioritize their use with AT guns first, followed by HMGs, other AT weapons, leaders, and then rifle teams.

You will have to go back and forth a lot between your map, your notes and the purchase screen until you get the hang of this. Experiment with force quality and weapon types to get the most optimal purchase price.

An example (for mostly infantry battle):

US rifle BN whittled down to -

1 rifle company

1 rifle platoon

3x AT guns

3x HMGs

2x Sherman M4A3s or 3-4x M10 TDs

M16 AA HT

2x 81mm MTR platoons

1x 105mm Arty Batt

1x Mines

1x Foxholes

For an Armor defense I would probably actually purchase something very similar to the Armor attack force, minus the HTs for the infantry. Fight your Armor in a mobile defense with subsequent battle positions. Tanks work best when they have movement options, they make pretty crappy (and dead) pill boxes. Engage briefly, fall back past a BP occupied by another tank element, attempt an end run on the opponents flank, etc. Plan liberal use of smoke to cover your retrogrades. Often this means calling for smoke as soon as you start to engage the enemy, depending on the CFF times, so that it starts falling at the same time you need to withdraw. Or you can use the smoke dischargers on your vehicles (if they have them.) Use your infantry to defend the VP or wooded/urban areas that the enemy might want/need to conduct his attack.

[bobo]

OK. So I am going to play ScoutPL in a game. Question is do I read his tips here or just wing it like I usually do?

Bobo

[MOS:96B2P]

OK. So I am going to play ScoutPL in a game. Question is do I read his tips here or just wing it like I usually do?

Bobo

Read and use ScoutPL's tips. Just like Patton read Rommel's book. Then post plenty of screen shots and narrative so we can see how it worked out for you. I bet you and ScoutPL could give a great AAR when it was done that I and others could learn from.

[ScoutPL]

Its OK, I am such a cynical and sarcastic old fart I rarely follow my own advice.