AT gun fires while moving

[A co]

I just had one of my AT guns fire at an enemy tank while the gun was being moved by its crew. (It hit the tank at 1200 meters, too.) The gun was not limbered. This was fun for me, but I'm guessing it was an oversight in the programming or a bug.

I can provide a game file of the turn if needed.

[Baneman]

I'm guessing that's a spin-off benefit from the new rules which allow ATG's to be "pushed" short distances without limbering. ( I haven't tested it myself, so I don't know exactly how many AS's count as a "short distance" )

Gun counts as deployed = gun can fire, I imagine.

Rack it up to your superior tactical ability

[Childress]

I'm guessing that's a spin-off benefit from the new rules which allow ATG's to be "pushed" short distances without limbering.

Nope. March 'em across the map and they remain deployed the whole time. At least a pair of my Soviet 76s did. Note: this was over flat terrain. Never saw them firing while moving, however.

[A co]

I suppose it's part of the routine which allows any moving unit occasionally to fire at enemies it spots. I will accept it as an effect of my superior tactical ability- but if I saw my opponent do it, it would be an abomination!

[sburke]

I just had one of my AT guns fire at an enemy tank while the gun was being moved by its crew. (It hit the tank at 1200 meters, too.) The gun was not limbered. This was fun for me, but I'm guessing it was an oversight in the programming or a bug.

I can provide a game file of the turn if needed.

outstanding! yes PM me please

[sburke]

@A co - took a look and will pass along. I am not real familiar with the new capability of moving the gun in 3.0. In reviewing the turn it seems you gave it a movement order of about one AS. It's on a diagonal so maybe a little more however it is a short distance. The crew is never "moving" in the UI, they are always listed as spotting. I don't know if that corresponds to anyone's expectations or not as this is a new change and I expect it will have a few unintended consequences.

As to the T 34 you mentioned. The first round struck slightly above and behind the bow mg seat (pretty cool, look inside the tank and you can see the entry). I would have expected a more stressed out response from the tank, but it is a little hard to tell not having the Russian side turn. The crew bails on the next round and what I can't really tell is did the second round cause them to bail or would they have done so anyway after the first. I expect based on that brief MG burst they would not have.

@childress, I will ask about that deployment issues as well.

Based on a quick check distance does not have any impact on whether a unit will deploy a gun, however my initial impression is the gun moves faster if limbered. I do not seen any difference in the effort involved. In Dawn Patrol I could move the gun in either mode and stay rested.

[Childress]

@childress, I will ask about that deployment issues as well.

It could be a case of WAD although comments from the developers suggest otherwise. If they determine an ATG can only move x meters while remaining deployed do they make 'x' known? Terrain based? Size of gun? Crew experience?

[A co]

Thanks for checking it out, sburke. If the gun's behavior does turn out to be corresponding to expectations, then I guess it's the posture of the crew, 'walking' animation as I recall, that surprises me. But then gun crews in the game do a lot of moving around that's hard to interpret.

[sburke]

Honestly I don't know, the firing behavior for sure doesn't seem right. I don't know for sure the intent about moving. I had thought it was supposed to only be a short distance thing, but that wasn't based on anything more than a couple comments in the forum. Either way it can't hurt to ask. Item is submitted along with a test scenario I created to show it wasn't a fluke, the ATG can fire while moving.

[nik mond]

Firing a pak from the hip. I like it, Chuck Norris style.

[Amizaur]

Nope. March 'em across the map and they remain deployed the whole time. At least a pair of my Soviet 76s did. Note: this was over flat terrain. Never saw them firing while moving, however.

Well, russians AT guns (at least 45mm ones) fought this way ! Sometimes they pushed unlimbered guns forward following the advancing troops, so they could give them AT support in any moment. They were assaulting on foot with AT guns, no kidding.

But they didn't fire on the move, I guess .

[John Kettler]

Amizaur,

If you go over to the excellent Archive Awareness site and dig up the Russian evaluation of a Lend Lease 17-pdr, you'll find a gripe to the effect it can only be pushed 100 meters over smooth ground. This is contrasted with what appears to be, by inference, a Red Army requirement to push a gun of this class 500 meters over rough ground. This is quite telling and gives some idea of Russian ability to reposition guns within a fairly substantial tactical zone.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Killkess]

I only find it logically correct to allow ATGs to fire on the move... Tanks are allowed to do the same to represent an abstracted short halt.

[Pelican Pal]

Killkess, I don;t think that is true. If you want your tank to do a short halt you give it a pause command. Otherwise it is firing on the move.

[sburke]

actually my recollection is that you are kind of both right. I'd have to dig up one of Steve's posts from way back in the early days of CMBN, but he went to great lengths to show why they are not able to do an actual pause while firing. IIRC it mostly had to do with what it would do to the AI in combat. Then again my memory has been known to be faulty.

As to the ATG I suspect that is likely a different issue and reasoning, but perhaps not.

[womble]

Kilkess has it right, about abstracted short halts. At least on the part of the TacAI. Yes, the player can put in a waypoint with a pause, but the TacAI isn't that sophisticated. Still, those "abstracted" halts aren't treated as stable a firing platform as an actual stopped vehicle, and firing on the move is still less accurate than from stationary. For vehicles. Since I don't expect (logical extensions notwithstanding) that ATGs are meant to be firing on the move (there's a bit more to "pausing" an ATG than a tank...) the accuracy probably isn't penalised.