Question about new camera controls feature

[IanL]

From the announcement:

Three different sets of camera controls; Standard (traditional), First Person Shooter, and Real Time Strategy

I have two questions:

1) Can someone specify what the controls will be like in those modes (if that is the right term)?

2) Does that mean I can turn off the "mouse near the edges = camera flies away out of control because I continually forget that is a special control area"?

OK three questions:

3) How do you switch between sets of controls?

[MikeyD]

This is a 'new' new feature for the Beta guys too. The paint is barely dry on some of the stuff they're showing to you. I can answer #3. A new pull-down list in 'options' named "Camera Config'.

[Battlefront.com]

The keys are customizable for each of the three modes. The mouse controls, however, are not modifiable. The best way to think of it is you pick which mouse controls you like best and then setup the keys as you like.

Personally, the FPS mode is rocking my world. I find it to be far faster to do things than the existing controls. And color me surprised Of course it helps that the framerates have been vastly improved over the last few releases. Without that the FPS controls would be horrible.

Steve

[Vinnart]

When I first saw the FPS feature I thought it was going to be a new camera viewpoint like one gets in a FPS so we could get the truest view the unit is seeing, but after the explanations I see it will be options only with how the camera can be controlled. I think the different modes to choose from should be good for players who are used to controlling the camera a certain way in other games they play. Admitidly when I first started playing CM it took me awhile to get used to the camera as it is different than any other game I played and did find it awkward. Now I am used to it I think it controls easily.

[Battlefront.com]

That's exactly it, in a nutshell. Ever since CMBO we've had people say to us "you might have a good game, but I refuse to learn new UI" (OK, maybe the don't say it that bluntly, but that's the message ). CMSF was even worse than CMx1 games because pretty much all game UI has boiled down to two standards, neither of which CM conformed to. While the UI can't ever be the same as a FPS or RTS, it can be closer and therefore more familiar.

FPS mode, for me, is really sweet. There's a little trick I learned in the first few minutes where you can make the map rotate around a point instead of the camera around a point. REALLY handy.

And for people who don't want to adapt their play style to either of these new methods... no problemo... stick with the default!

Steve

[sburke]

FPS mode, for me, is really sweet. There's a little trick I learned in the first few minutes where you can make the map rotate around a point instead of the camera around a point. REALLY handy.

Steve

watch it Steve, you know you are gonna be accused of thinking you are the center and the world revolves around you.

[GerryCMBB]

Any chance of a screenshot to see this new view in action Steve.

Thanks,

Gerry

[HistoryLover]

Ever since CMBO we've had people say to us "you might have a good game, but I refuse to learn new UI" (OK, maybe the don't say it that bluntly, but that's the message ). CMSF was even worse than CMx1 games because pretty much all game UI has boiled down to two standards, neither of which CM conformed to. While the UI can't ever be the same as a FPS or RTS, it can be closer and therefore more familiar.

I think it's good, if you have dropped the attitude that the camera controls were the wisdom of the universe and are trying to make the entry into the game easier for newcomers.

BTW attracting more customers: as cool as the new pictures are for all that know what CM is, but if I wouldn't know it, these pictures would not at all help me to understand it. In fact I probably would compare the graphics to the well known FPS and think "what an ugly looking wargame shooter" and would turn away.

The pictures do not transport the message of tactical warfare. They do not show, that the graphics are just the icing on the cake.

IMO you should use much more pictures showing the planning phase and try to portray some of the tactical considerations, that give every newcomer an impression, that this is about commanding squads, platoons, companies and their combined arms.

Where are the pics that show the movement paths of a platoon, the positioning of their heavy support weapons, the placement of HMGs compared to the attacking infantry? Where are the impressive number of paths of a battalion advancing? Ok, maybe better not, this could frighten potential customers.

The pics are perfect for CM players. They show us what is new. But those who don't know CM IMO get not the information they need to understand what the game is about.

[Battlefront.com]

Any chance of a screenshot to see this new view in action Steve.

Nah, still screenshot doesn't do anything. It's a motion thing.

I think it's good, if you have dropped the attitude that the camera controls were the wisdom of the universe and are trying to make the entry into the game easier for newcomers.

That was never our position. The camera controls for CMx1 were setup the way they were because, at the time, there really was no standard UI. Especially not for CM since there were no other games like it. We were criticized but people got used to it.

When CMx2 came out there were standard camera controls for FPS and RTS. We were caught in the middle because CM is neither FPS nor RTS, yet each group insisted that their methodology was the ONLY one we should use. Kinda like the arguments between the guy with chocolate and the guy with peanut butter So we once again optimized our camera controls for what CM is, not what Quake or Warcraft are like. The new controls for FPS and RTS style still retain a lot of the original behavior, but are more familiar to each in significant ways.

We've been wanting to make separate camera controls ever since, but simply didn't prioritize it as there were bigger fish to fry. The new controls are still not exactly like FPS or RTS because CM is still not quite either of those two games. But now there are more options and that is always a good thing.

BTW attracting more customers: as cool as the new pictures are for all that know what CM is, but if I wouldn't know it, these pictures would not at all help me to understand it. In fact I probably would compare the graphics to the well known FPS and think "what an ugly looking wargame shooter" and would turn away.

Fair point. We tend to have the AARs serve that purpose, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to extend some of that to the promotional pages.

The pics are perfect for CM players. They show us what is new. But those who don't know CM IMO get not the information they need to understand what the game is about.

Unfortunately it's not an easy concept to get across. To most people a "wargame" is anything that has guns and uniforms in it. Even when I describe CM to general gamers they say "so it's like Arma?" Trying to tell them you have to concentrate on tactics and what not goes zip... right over their heads.

Trying to tap into game audiences who aren't already familiar with tactical or strategic planning type games is like pushing a big rock uphill. You might make progress, but it comes at a great expense of energy. Spend too much on that you get tired and then the rock crushes you.

Steve

[IanL]

The keys are customizable for each of the three modes. The mouse controls, however, are not modifiable. The best way to think of it is you pick which mouse controls you like best and then setup the keys as you like.

OK. I will experiment with which set of mouse controls I like best. This kind of thing is really not something that is easy to describe but will have to be experienced. To this day I have no idea what FPS controls even means.

[womble]

To this day I have no idea what FPS controls even means.

In an FPS, your view is generally tied to your mouse movement ("mouselook"). Move your mouse right, the axis of your view moves to the right. Move it down, you look down. No need to hold mouse buttons, and the speed of movement depends on the speed of the mouse movement. Acceleration algorithms enable you to about-face if you move the mouse very quickly, whereas a slower movement over the same distance would only turn you, say, 30 degrees.

This leaves, in an FPS, the mouse buttons free for actions like trigger pull (LMB) or "alternative shot" (RMB).

xand y axis movement are generally assigned to WASD (forward, sidestep left, back, sidestep right) and your only z axis movements are spacebar (jump) and a key to crouch/go prone.

Generally, you don't see your cursor while in "gunsight" mode and they have some key combo to come out of "mouselook" mode so that you can get a cursor back and go to the interface at the bottom of the screen without looking at your boots. Calling up an inventory or other non-gunsight interface element will generally also necessarily give you back a mouse cursor.

How that translates into CM, your imagination can supply as well and accurately as mine

Ooo! Ooo! Steve! How about a YouTube of the new interface modes in action?!

[Battlefront.com]

Womble gave a good description.

The major difference between CM's take on FPS controls and a traditional FPS game is what the left and right mouse buttons do. In a FPS game there's no need to "click" on anything, therefore the mouse buttons can be dedicated to shooting primary and secondary weapons, or sometimes the right mouse button is used for cycling weapons, etc. In CM that's really not ideal because a) there is no such concept as "shooting" and you *do* have to click on stuff. A LOT of stuff

Currently we have the right and left mouse buttons retaining their existing CM camera controls. In combination with the "mouselook" behavior it's actually really damned powerful.

When I want to move around the map, either to get somewhere or to explore, I use the WADS key combo (user definable, but that's the industry standard) to move around the map and have the "mouselook" refine and speed up the process. When I'm trying to do something delicate I find that the current right-click camera pan is far more precise than the FPS standards.

We're still experimenting with how this all works, so getting into the details right now wouldn't be very useful as it might change. Actually, nearly for sure will change

Steve

[IanL]

Womble gave a good description.

Thanks guys - I will engage my imagination for now and try it when it comes out.

What about the third mode - RTS mode. What does that mean.

Fair enough.

[Migo441]

The FPS controls sound very promising.

What's the mechanism to toggle in and out of mouselook so the mouse becomes a regular mouse again? Is the scroll wheel used for z-axis?

[womble]

Query about Mouselook and movement combined: is movement along the true 3D axis of your current view, or constrained to "level flight while looking [up|down]"? I.e., if you're pitched off-horizontal, does movement along move you up or down along the angle you're looking?

[Truculent]

With the FPS control option, how about having the LMB select a unit that is 'clicked' on screen and the RMB bring up the orders menu for that unit...mmm where do I remember

that system from??