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sten gun accurate in MG


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I been playing alot of MG house to house I notice that the sten gun is very accurate i understan it can be at close, but in medium and long I dont really thing it was I lost full german squads to a single stun gun 3 times now in diferent esenarios, and im sure the mp40 was better

is because of the patch? it wasent like this in CW module that i can remember

check this video about the sten vs the mp40 at 33:56

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zthkVwQskCY

anyone notice this? or is just me? sorry my english sucks :P

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Keep watching the video:-) Their testers' conclusion was that the MP40 was only marginally better. In a recent case where I lost nearly a whole squad to a bunch of Sten gun wielding paras it was a shooting gallery - fire from two directions against a bunched up squad. The less accurate sten guns might have helped spread the mayhem around the area even more.

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Yes; in all tests I've seen (including the one linked above), the MP40 rates as more accurate than the Sten, but only very slightly; probably not enough to create a noticeable difference.

It's the Thompson that's significantly less effective at longer range -- slower muzzle velocity means more bullet drop, and the Thompson also has more recoil and muzzle climb, making it harder to keep bursts on target. The Thompson also has non-adjustable iron sights zeroed at 50 yds., which means that shooting at distant targets involves a fair amount of dead reckoning. The MP40 has a flip-up sight leaf zeroed at 100m, making longer range aiming easier.

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Things will get even more interesting in this regard when Eastern Front shows up! If I recall my numbers correctly PPSH has a twice the ROF of a MP40 and higher muzzle velocity. In theory it should outrange the MP40 by a good 40m. A real room sweeper when it comes to house-to-house fighting.

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Things will get even more interesting in this regard when Eastern Front shows up! If I recall my numbers correctly PPSH has a twice the ROF of a MP40 and higher muzzle velocity. In theory it should outrange the MP40 by a good 40m. A real room sweeper when it comes to house-to-house fighting.

with how many bullets 71? real room cleaning.. hope the germans can pick those and use like in real life

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Eh, there will (probably) be no scavenging of enemy weapons per se, but I do recall that in CMBB that germans had PPSHs randomly equipped in their squads. So you will probably see them in German hands as much as you see them using Beretta SMGs in CMFI.

And I for one have been waiting for Bagration to come out JUST for the Soviet SMG squads. :) They will be epically brutal. :D

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CMX2 tracks specific ammo calibers. PPSH using Russian 7.62 pistol rounds makes resupply very difficult when in German hands. Not only would they be adding the weapon, they'd also have to create an entire logistics tail just for darned ammo acquisition! Not to say that they're not doing it (I don't know) be I'd be mighty surprised if they did.

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MikeyD,

In addition to the Russian cartridge, the PPSh 41 could fire the German Mauser 7.63 x 25 cartridge, which was already in the German supply chain for the Mauser C96 pistol. Such weapons were designated MP 717®.

This piece, part of a site by a man who is a gunsmith, flat out says the German Mauser cartridge was fully interchangeable with the Russian Tokarev TT pistol cartridge.

http://www.ppsh41.usual (Moon paranoid; don't want an infraction)

The same site also talks about the German 9mm conversions and the logic behind them.

http://www.ppsh41.usual/ppsh2.html

From The Encyclopedia of Weapons: From World War II to the Present Day (PPSh-1941 page) we get

"So many PPSh-41 submachine guns were produced that the type became a virtual standard weapon for the German army as well as the Red Army"

There are plenty of pics on the Web showing wide German use, but I especially like this one: PPSh-41 in urban combat, with a slung MP-38/40!

http://www.wwiiguns.usual/store/product_catalog.php?c=56

Regards,

John Kettler

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The German converted the PPsh41 to 9mm and called it the MP41®, but I don't know how common that was. It took MP40 magazines.

I found this here:

A fellow PPSh enthusiast from Canada told me he spoke with a German Waffen-SS vet in 1965 who stated that while on the Eastern front he received 4,000 units of 9mm barrels and mag adapters to be changed by the Army's Armory in the Ukraine

Sounds to me like the 9mm conversion was fairly common, and so it wouldn't be out of place to give it 9mm ammo on the German side. However, there's also the issue of how the 9mm ammo changed the weapon's muzzle velocity and effective range.

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Yes; in all tests I've seen (including the one linked above), the MP40 rates as more accurate than the Sten, but only very slightly; probably not enough to create a noticeable difference.

It's the Thompson that's significantly less effective at longer range -- slower muzzle velocity means more bullet drop, and the Thompson also has more recoil and muzzle climb, making it harder to keep bursts on target. The Thompson also has non-adjustable iron sights zeroed at 50 yds., which means that shooting at distant targets involves a fair amount of dead reckoning. The MP40 has a flip-up sight leaf zeroed at 100m, making longer range aiming easier.

I've actually had the opportunity to shoot all three on a limited scale. MP40 is very easy to control on burst fire and fully automatic, surely a great range weapon. The Sten is very similar due to using the same round, the big issue that can affect accuracy is the side magazine which unbalances the weapon and tends to throw the gun around a bit when firing. I understand why you see so many picture of people firing the gun holding the magazine, it helps with the accuracy by stopping the heavy magazine (when loaded) from pulling the gun around. They are pretty comparable (Sten did jam on me twice though).

Thompson actually scared me, very hard to hold on to on fully automatic but reasonable enough firing bursts. Funny enough, Canadian soldiers from Italy who swapped Thompsons for stens found the 9mm quite inadequate for putting down Germans with.

Makes me wonder if the Thompson, while ranking last on a peace time range, would rank first in combat for being controllable enough and very lethal.

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"using Russian 7.62 pistol rounds makes resupply very difficult when in German hands"

Um, the Russian 7.62x25 is a direct copy of the German Mauser 30 caliber, used in the C96 "broomhandle" automatic pistol of the WW I (and even earlier) era. Very little difference in the rounds. The Russian designers picked it because it was a proven feeder in semiauto actions, they didn't invent it.

I see JK made a similar point...

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I carried (crew served weapon) and qualified several times on the Sten Gun in 1964/65, before it was replaced with the Sterling SMG...

Although rated out to 200 yards, the qualification range was 35 yards and it was always short 3 round bursts, if you could hold her to that. Very inexpensively made weapon ....

IMHO, past 50 yards or so, you'd be lucky to hit anything deliberately, but you'd probably scare the daylights out of the other side... :P

Just my opinion .. ;)

Regards,

Doug

ps: here is a link to one in my collection ..

1943 Longbranch Mk II (9mm) Sten Gun

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"there's also the issue of how the 9mm ammo changed the weapon's muzzle velocity and effective range"

Yeah, it reduced both materially. The 7.62x25 is a much hotter round, up to 40% faster while 25% lighter. That means higher overall energy and flatter shooting, adding up to 50 yards to the effective range when fired with a full stock and sight radius etc.

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Makes me wonder if the Thompson, while ranking last on a peace time range, would rank first in combat for being controllable enough and very lethal.

Yeah, .45 ACP packs quite a punch a close range. Have you ever fired an M8 Grease Gun? I've always wondered how that compared to the Thompson. They certainly continued in service for a long, long time after the war.

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I

Makes me wonder if the Thompson, while ranking last on a peace time range, would rank first in combat for being controllable enough and very lethal.

The .45 ACP round does indeed have good "knockdown" effect, but I don't know where you get the idea that the Thompson was particularly controllable.

Relatively high ROF, heavy round, and ergonomics of the gun gave it a nasty muzzle climb. Every gun test i have seen pitting the Thompson against contemporaries like the MP40, Sten, and PPsh has ranked the Thompson as more difficult to keep under control when firing extended bursts.

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