poesel Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I know every system has flukes but some things just shouldn't happen. Like crawling through a tank without noticing it... The pictures are in 10 second intervals. The bazooka team sits on the left side of the house in the vineyard. It was sitting there at the end of last round and given a crawl order around the corner. At least they nailed the tank. But I'm sure the tank crew will mow them down as retribution 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Hunter Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I've seen similar occur and it was discussed in this thread http://battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=104135 Believe it has to do with how spotting is computed, it is done in cycles so until the next cycle the tank will not be spotted which sometimes looks weird. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 I know quite well that spotting works in cycles. But I also most certainly know that these cycles are not fixed. So CM could change the spotting rate in some situations. Or CM could make it a certainty instead of a chance that you spot a tank immediately if you have LOS and are within, say, 20m. Yes it MAY be that a soldier doesn't spot a tank 10m away from in plain sight in the heat of the battle. But that would be such an outlier that I'd rather have it that it never happens and we also never had the very improbable non-spotting we currently get in some situations. And no, I don't think spotting is broken. But these WTF situations sometimes poke you in the eye. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Believe it has to do with how spotting is computed, it is done in cycles so until the next cycle the tank will not be spotted which sometimes looks weird. Yes, spotting is done in cycles, that can explain the fact that when you move a unit into the line of sight of the enemy unit, you might have to wait awhile for it to spot the enemy. The problem is, this is the perfect example of a problem beyond that. Please explain how this team did not see the tank from the beginning. really before they even moved, they should have seen this giant mass which was likely no farther than 30 feet from them. If that Tank has not move there, the infantry should have been able to see it easy from any of its locations. The spotting cycle runs at every 3 to 7 seconds as I recall. So likely missed spotting it multible times. Likely because they could not see the ground spot on which the tank is sitting. But realistically, it is far beyond anything close to how it should be. There is just some aspects of the game engine and programming that just dont work well, this is one of them areas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Yes, spotting is done in cycles, that can explain the fact that when you move a unit into the line of sight of the enemy unit, you might have to wait awhile for it to spot the enemy. The problem is, this is the perfect example of a problem beyond that. Please explain how this team did not see the tank from the beginning. really before they even moved, they should have seen this giant mass which was likely no farther than 30 feet from them. If that Tank has not move there, the infantry should have been able to see it easy from any of its locations. The spotting cycle runs at every 3 to 7 seconds as I recall. So likely missed spotting it multible times. Likely because they could not see the ground spot on which the tank is sitting. But realistically, it is far beyond anything close to how it should be. There is just some aspects of the game engine and programming that just dont work well, this is one of them areas Yup, i think it is because they couldnt see the actual spot (in the center of the tank) where the tank is according to the game. Whilst the tank might be 6 meters long and 2.5 meters tall, the actual in-game calculated spot where it resides is about the same size as an infantry soldier. And it seems its not much taller than that either. So whilst these guys should have seen the tank, they dont actually see the calculated area of the tank (ie. the infantryman sized center of the tank) until they get to higher ground. Thats my take on how it works anyway, from years of playing the game (and having tanks move almost through buildings or eachother) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I'm pretty sure that the game takes into account height and size of targets. That's why my pak can spot and fire upon a sherman across a wheat field, but not the infantry running alongside until they are pretty close. But it's quite evident that the calculations have some hiccups from time to time. I've had an experience very similar to poesel71's with a bunker in a hillside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Yeah, a long time back I suggested dialling up the cycles or doing something to make tanks more "visible" - a lot of time has passed, yet it seems that tanks still spot infantry better than infantry spot tanks. And sometimes you get these very weird ones like this example. In a current PBEM, I've just had a tank (PzIV) spot and shoot at a Bren carrier. BUT, directly in front of the Bren Carrier about 2-3m away is a Cromwell ( it's on a slightly lower elevation.) Not spotted. My PzIV has blue line LoS to the Cromwell's location and it's larger than the Bren carrier. Both have been in sight for the same amount of time / spotting cycles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I'm pretty sure that the game takes into account height and size of targets. That's why my pak can spot and fire upon a sherman across a wheat field, but not the infantry running alongside until they are pretty close. But it's quite evident that the calculations have some hiccups from time to time. I've had an experience very similar to poesel71's with a bunker in a hillside. That Sherman's "Centre of Spot" might just be high enough above the corn to be spotted when the infantry's isn't. I've seen what looks like both types of behaviour: sometimes just being able to see a corner of the target is enough to allow the TacAI to spot and induce it to shoot, whereas other times, if there's a half a bush in front of the centre of mass, with the front of the vehicle poking out one side, and the rear of it visible on the other side, the target isn't visible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Also unless the engine was turned off..surely they'd have heard it aswell? Honestly feel that the hearing aspect of spotting really needs to more work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 I recall in CM1 vehicles had a "Center of Spot" (and height etc didn't matter), but I though that in CM2 they act like realistic objects as in WYSIWYG. Are CM2 trees not modeled in detail so one can hit branches etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I recall in CM1 vehicles had a "Center of Spot" (and height etc didn't matter), but I though that in CM2 they act like realistic objects as in WYSIWYG. Are CM2 trees not modeled in detail so one can hit branches etc? Naah, i keep hitting air when shooting through wooded areas. Its pretty abstracted. And i think vehicles are too. They still have that small center "firm point" and the rest is just filling. You can see that when moving vehicles through built up areas, they tend to have half their body inside buildings and such... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 You can hit branches when shooting through trees, but I think it's abstracted to "a chance to hit a branch" rather than tracking branch positions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 Just a follow up about what happened next: the tank crew jumped out of the tank and shot both members of the bazooka team. Then they shot the two members of the other zook team I had send the other way around the house. And - although I'm not 100% sure - they nailed another guy later. In hindsight not knocking the Brummbär out would have been the better idea... I thought the Rambo tank crews had been fixed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Bailing out crews are still very rambo-ish from my point of view. IMHO most of the time they should be willing to surrender to any nearby enemy if there's no friendlies next to them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Since the command attributes of units change (almost always worse) when leaders are casualties, maybe the crews could automatically become much worse after bailing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Yossarian0815[jby] Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Just a follow up about what happened next: the tank crew jumped out of the tank and shot both members of the bazooka team. Then they shot the two members of the other zook team I had send the other way around the house. And - although I'm not 100% sure - they nailed another guy later. In hindsight not knocking the Brummbär out would have been the better idea... I thought the Rambo tank crews had been fixed? The Rambo tank crews are only activated when certain sherman tanks survive 150mm HEAT round hits unscathed ;O) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 You mean the 150mm HEAT round fired by the Rambo tank crew that just got a penetrating hit through the turret five seconds before? Btw I had accidentally turned smoke off and was wondering why I didn't have LOS... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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