Goering and Luftwaffe Infantry

[Battlefront.com]

There certainly was a problem with the rate of attrition in Normandy straining the replacement system. It took roughly 3 months (IIRC) to get a raw recruit trained in the US and into the European Theater. I don't know how long it took the Brits, but it was probably around 2 months. If you've just chewed up your reserves you don't want to sit around for a few months waiting to get back up to strength.

Steve

[GJR144]

@Wicky

The source is Volume IV, the first halfvolume, starting at p. 312. I don't know where I had downloaded it, it has been quite some time ago.

It's a highly recommended read, although it must be read with certain scepticism, because it was released AFTER the war when Hitler was dead and many of the traitors were alive and needed to rewrite history and blamed everything on Hitler while covering their trails. For example the behaviour of the traitor Kluge (OB West), the abysmal performance and ignoring the orders of the highest command (OKW), is only covered with one or two sentences and that he quickly poisoned himself before the Gestapo got him, is not even mentioned.

But even with these restricions the KTB is a first class source to refute so many propaganda lies that have been spread, printed and reprinted ever since.

In regards to the upcoming CM Barbarossa game it's also a very interesting source. That, for example, the OKH (Brauchitsch; also a traitor, btw) ignored orders of the OKW, misused the Pz.Divs. against clear orders of the OKW. Can be found there.

The main force behind splitting forces? The OKH, not the OKW. The reason why Leningrad was not taken and the try was with insufficient forces? The OKH, not Hitler. Who wanted to solve one problem after the other with adequate forces? Surprise after surprise. Who misused the mobile forces and kept them fighting the encircled pockets, although infantry divisions were available? OKH, despite the orders of the OKW.

And much more.

But people want convenience and ignorance is a bliss...

[Battlefront.com]

Anybody that argues that the war was lost because Hitler and the OKW were "ignored", coupled with other comments like you've made, make it clear you're a neo-Nazi defender/apologist. Such a mindset is absolutely, and unequivocally, hostile to debate on rational grounds. Which means it's not useful to have you in a discussion forum about WW2. It's like having someone on an Earth sciences forum who firmly believes the world is flat, the universe revolves around Earth, Earth is only a few thousand years old, we did not evolve from apes, etc. At some point one has to simply admit that there's too big a gap in the understanding of the world to have a productive discussion.

GJR144... there's nothing any of us can do to correct, or even modify, your distorted view of the world. We, and I do not just me me, know your type and how utterly predictable your behavior is. You've already proven it pretty much every post in this thread. You have absolutely no interest in challenging your preconceptions because you don't want to, therefore you have no right to continue being a member of this Forum. Given this reality, I am instructing you to keep your views of history to yourself. I'm not going to tolerate the problems that one fanatic can cause in a place that is about honest intellectual discussion.

Maybe I should just save us all a lot of time and energy and ban you now. Because for sure, without a doubt, you'll force me to do it sooner rather than later. Or ban you again if you are Steiner14 (which there is definite reason to suspect, but some room for doubt). So here's the deal...

You are limited to posting about the game and the game only. If I see you pushing your neo-Nazi agenda here you will be banned. Without hesitation, without regrets but with pity. I am sure we'll somehow survive wallowing in our "ignorance".

Steve

[GJR144]

Correct analysis of the OKW:

Conflict with the OKH:

The disastrous plan of the OKH:

First you ask about arguments and when I deliver them you immediately begin to show a face of ignorance and censorship and threatening.

The bad thing is, that you probably will be applauded from the politically "correct" yes-men for doing what you are doing with your forum.

You know what the difference between dictatorship and tyranny is?

Arbitrariness.

[Battlefront.com]

First you ask about arguments and when I deliver them you immediately begin to show a face of ignorance and censorship and threatening.

No, you continue to duck and avoid direct discussion. You did not even know the RAF and USAF studies existed and you disputed their findings even before seeing them. After seeing them you had no comment other than to suggest they were politically motivated. When challenged further you produce some scans that are untranslated and not accompanied with any text from you about how they are related. The only thing you have said about them is that they are unreliable evidence. Which is an odd way to support your assertions.

You've provided absolutely nothing to support your position and nothing to challenge the positions of others. Obviously you don't see it that way, but that's exactly part of the problem. Your idea of a debate is that you're right and everybody else is wrong, so why quibble with the details?

The bad thing is, that you probably will be applauded from the politically "correct" yes-men for doing what you are doing with your forum.

Here's the funny thing about fanatical thought process. There is no process except to reject challenges to preconceived reality.

This whole thing got started because non-Germans challenged the assertion that Allied tactical airpower was as powerful and decisive as their own history books say it was. This opinion is contrary to "status quo" thinking and initially had NOTHING to do with the German side of the equation. It was to challenge the American and British positions by (largely) American and British posters. And you are calling such people "ignorant" and disinterested in the "truth". Ironic.

It is easy to see why you take issue with Americans and British questioning their own histories. It's because your belief system is in large part based on American and British myths. Therefore you do not want to see one myth (airpower won the war) challenged because it affects your own deeply held myth (German ground forces never lost a "fair" fight). Because you are so totally biased and intellectually bound to this myth you can not afford to have a debate about it. This is the problem with fanatical beliefs... they are so delicately built that any challenge, no matter how small, must be crushed because it is a THREAT.

For me my personal identity is not tied to events that happened long before I was born. I honestly don't care one way or another so long as the facts support the conclusion. That is absolutely not the case with you. Not even remotely.

You know what the difference between dictatorship and tyranny is?

Arbitrariness.

Maybe something got lost in translation, because what you said makes no sense. tyranny is a process. Dictatorships, like the Third Reich, use tyranny as a tool for their own end. Arbitrariness is inherent in such a system because the ends justify the means. Anybody who has studied repressive governments and social organizations, which I have, understand that.

Here there is no arbitrariness. This is a forum for customers to have an intellectual discussion or to better understand how the game works. You have shown no interest in having an intellectual discussion. In fact, you seek to destroy the chance of having one by injecting ideologically based arguments which are not supported by facts. That means your participation is actually harmful to intellectual enlightenment, as is all fanatical behavior. So I'm informing you that you are not welcome to participate because you are incapable of doing so.

However, if you want to learn about the game and participate in the discussion of the game mechanics, you are still welcome to be here.

There is no arbitrariness to my actions, but there is a demonstrable degree of tolerance. I'm at least offering you the chance to stay here, just as I did to Steiner14. And like Steiner14 (who you might be anyway), I doubt you will be able to play by the rules. Fanatics do not think the rules apply to them.

You have been warned. Your behavior will decide what happens next.

Steve

[womble]

You know what the difference between dictatorship and tyranny is?

Arbitrariness.

Oh, there's nothing whatsoever arbitrary about Steve's view. He's quite clearly explained it, and he's consistent about it. There have been a few people with... strange ideas about history who've come here and actually listened, who've remained, enlightened.

Perhaps you don't actually know what the word means. Which wouldn't be a terrible thing, even if English was your first language.

[Ts4EVER]

I'm German, so I can read the sources posted. While they paint a picture of conflict between the different organs of the Nazi apparatus, I fail to see how this is indicative of any kind of "conspiracy". In fact, it is perfectly in line with what we know about the well documented organisational flaws in the German command structure of WW2.

Also, let's say for the sake of argument that Hitler's approach in this case was the more tactically sound one. I fail to see how you can extrapolate from this that the war could have been one if only Hitler's plans had been followed. This seems like a huge amount of speculation to me.

[poesel]

You know what the difference between dictatorship and tyranny is?

One is a form of government - the other a means of government.

Know the words you write. It helps.

[Sixxkiller]

I wuv you cute wittle Nazi's. I just want to hug you while I break your wittle necks.

[Battlefront.com]

I'm German, so I can read the sources posted. While they paint a picture of conflict between the different organs of the Nazi apparatus, I fail to see how this is indicative of any kind of "conspiracy". In fact, it is perfectly in line with what we know about the well documented organisational flaws in the German command structure of WW2.

Also, let's say for the sake of argument that Hitler's approach in this case was the more tactically sound one. I fail to see how you can extrapolate from this that the war could have been one if only Hitler's plans had been followed. This seems like a huge amount of speculation to me.

Yeah, that's kinda what I thought it would be. It's something I've seen before. The thinking seems to be better to post something irrelevant than nothing at all. Then one can walk away saying "I showed them the truth and they ignored it". Might as well post something from 50 Shades of Gray as evidence that the world has gone to hell. Uhm, actually that would have some merit.

Steve

[LongLeftFlank]

I always wonder what exactly the Nazi apologists imagine this immense and influential web of 'traitors' -- mostly lifelong German military officers, and successful ones to boot -- were hoping to achieve by 'deliberately' enabling the destruction of the organization to which they had devoted their entire careers, not to mention their own countries. Some kind of Bolshevist brainwashing perhaps?

Or perhaps a sinister cabal of 'bourgeois intellectuals' and 'plutokraten'... which is to say (using the code of these people) Jews (hiding their origins -- thats a favorite hobby of neo Nazis btw) plus weak fools corrupted by apatrid (Jewish) notions of liberal democracy. Who of course take treason in with their mothers' milk, everybody knows that. The same fifth column, I suppose, whose manifold treasons and manipulation of dimwitted French and Slavic neighbours had prevented the great German Volk from achieving its manifest destiny ever since, what, Roman times? Them, them, always them!

[Gamer58]

All I know is that the Luftwaffe Inf. had some of the best looking uniforms.

I also know that Crete was regarded as a brutal campaign and the FSJ must have done a good job as far as it could.

Back to the uniforms: I'm guessing the white flashes on caps/shoulders of the LFD were not altogether a good thing in combat?