Ritirare! Italian Defense AAR

[John Kettler]

BigDork,

A lot of digging, with many blind alleys along the way, eventually bringing me to a great thread from the CM Archives.

Further, FM 17-12 Tank Gunnery (1943) has NO instruction whatsoever for the .50 and doesn't so much as depict it in the M4A1 drawings of what to do and how to do it. The Sherman is naked on top and has exactly the split hatch seen in-game.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/PDFs/FM17-12.PDF

Am having a lot of trouble, given what I dug up in the battle accounts and the pics, in justifying the mounts and capabilities depicted in the game. Would love to hear from BFC on this issue. The present setup, in my view, greatly exaggerates the MG firepower of the Sherman and ahistorically reduces operator vulnerability to boot.

Regards,

John Kettler

[BigDork]

I apologize for the silence. An infant and working 12 hour shifts has made AARing and gaming somewhat of a secondary thing. Hopefully I'm back at it.

Turn 34 - 37

Penry continues to push his men forward towards BN. Unfortunately I am having issues making continual contact with the Americans to fire on them.

At least there's some great news for me. After 35 minutes of waiting my reinforcements finally show up in the back of BN. I get two more STuGs and a platoon of infantry. This should make Penry's efforts to take the objective much harder.

The German armor arrives at a fortuitous time for me. Feeling pressure from the American unit running around in the woods near BS I tried to have my R35 escape towards the Farm. Unfortunately as my tank cleared the trees and tried to make a run for it one of the GMCs scored a direct hit.

Having finished off my tank the GMC turns its attention on my infantry in the woods around BS. It only takes a few 75mm HE shells to send my men running.

As my first line of defense of the objective melts away I definitely start having some worries.

[BigDork]

Turn 34 - 37

Things are not going well for me at BS. My men are either suppressed or fleeing and the Americans are starting to push forward. At this point I need to rally as best I can and try to make a stand at the barn.

It goes from bad to worse when I lose my HQ unit at BS. They narrowly survive a blast from the GMC just in front of them only to fall to a well placed mortar round that lands between the two men in the unit. My already fragile force is now even more broken.

And since the luck is clearly against me at the moment let's add one dead tank commander to the list. As one of the newly arrived StuGs tries to take position near BN the TC is hit and taken out. I suppose I should be thankful I didn't lose the entire vehicle. Still, with several Shermans running around I need each of my assault guns to be at full operation and this could definitely cost me.

[BigDork]

Turn 38

Despite machine gun fire from the Farm and mortars being shot from multiple locations the Americans just keep pushing forward. It's become apparent to me that if I am going to stop Penry from taking BN it will be by my infantry in the woods.

It becomes even more apparent soon after the turn starts as very accurate and painful artillery starts raining down on the Farm. The past barrages hurt my men some but this is murderous. My newly arrived Germans had no idea what they were rushing in to a few minutes ago.

The barrage is so intense that the farmhouse itself collapses taking out everyone inside it. I'm not sure the number of casualties I took this turn but it's safe to say that any unit that's at the Farm is effectively out of this battle. I should be able to rally some units and cobble together some sort of defense once the artillery ends but this past minute has been horrible on my men.

The only silver lining to the whole thing is that my StuG was able to take out one of Penry's Shermans as it crossed the bridge. Despite the artillery falling my men calmly took out one of the biggest threats on the battlefield. If I can manage to neutralize all of Penry's armor and GMCs then it won't matter that my infantry in the Farm is broken and bleeding. My armor should be able to hold off the Yanks. It's a long shot but worth hoping for.

Orders

At BN my men are dug in and waiting the Americans to start moving in the woods towards the objective. I'm going to make them bleed for every bit of ground they try to take.

I am very worried about this Sherman I spot at the back of the map. I have a very bad feeling he represents a second wave of American reinforcements. I'm already holding on by a thread and more Americans, and especially more American armor, is going to make this quite the challenge. My StuG almost has LOS on the tank but not quite. I order him to dash forward just a couple feet in hopes of being able to bring my gun to bear. I need to take this tank and any friends he has with him out if I'm going to win.

[ComradeP]

Nice AAR BigDork, the scenario has an interesting mix of Italian and German forces.

Two short questions: what is your strategy for holding the farm in future turns? It's unfortunate that a second massive barrage hit after the one that hit the Italians. Do you intend to keep the farm area (the immediate area of where the two storey building was before it collapsed) occupied in strength?

What do you think the odds are of the the StuG moving forward resulting in the Sherman(s?) possibly getting the first shot in and being able to target the lower hull armour, like with the StuG that was destroyed, as it moves over the crest of the hill? It seems like a somewhat risky move, but your luck has some catching up to do so it might work.

[poesel]

Thanks for making the AAR - good read!

One suggestion: button your Stugs. The awareness to the front is not much worse buttoned but loosing the TC is.

[BigDork]

Turn 39

While my StuG doesn't move forward enough to bring his gun to bear on the Sherman he does manage to take out another of Penry's halftracks. I've lost count of how many of these things I've turned into useless heaps of scrap.

Things do get tense when my assault gun near the Farm gets line of sight on a Sherman crossing the bridge. My first shot hits but only causes some spalling and I don't believe any casualties. I'm not as lucky. The Sherman's response causes a partial penetration and takes out one of my crew. As the turn ends each tank is poised to fire again. I have a bad feeling about this.

Orders

Considering the exchange between the StuG and the Sherman in the middle of the map I've decided to not just push my StuG at BN forward when the Sherman I want to fire on is pointing directly at it. It's too risky. Instead I've ordered this StuG to reverse out of LOS and then pop back up. I also hope to have a better shot on the tank around the burning R35.

I'm also ordering the other StuG near BN who lost the TC back into the action. I feel like I'm holding on by a thread and I really need all my armor to survive.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Turn 39

... I've ordered this StuG to reverse out of LOS and then pop back up.

I've learned the hard way that reversing out of a face off like this is usually a losing proposition... better to stay and duke it out. Moving you will most likely miss if the STuG fires, and there is a chance that he will be the one to blink and attempt to reverse out of the fight, leaving himself vulnerable. It's a nail biter regardless when making these types of decisions and waiting for that next turn can be torture!

Curious as to how it ends up.

[BigDork]

[Bil Hardenberger]

Heh

Nicely done.

[c3k]

You fled??? How can your men respect you if you flee? How can you expect them to charge into the teeth of a machinegun if you run? Oh. Then you advanced. Well done.

Ken

[BigDork]

Turn 40

The last minute ended with one of my StuGs facing off against one of Penry's Shermans near the Farm. Each thank had taken a hit and the next shot would probably decide it. I watched anxiously as my assault gun sat there stunned over the loss of the loader. I expected an American 75mm AP round to rip through my armor at any moment. Instead both vehicles lose LOS and it all ends rather anti-climatically.

However... another one bites the dust! My StuG near BN reverses behind the hill only to relocate moments later and with a single shot take out another of Penry's Shermans. I would imagine the American commander is feeling pretty defeated right about now.

Also near BN my mortar strike (I'd forgotten I had called in) starts to fall. Unfortunately it falls just short of where I need it too. If it had landed just meters from where it was I would have totally stopped the American advance.

Orders

For the next turn I'll have my FO call in a hopefully better spot for my mortar strike. I may get lucky and still be able to blast some of Penry's men.

My second StuG is still relocating near BN. I'm realizing that where I'm ordering him has turned into something of a scrap yard for my tanks but I need my armor here to help cover the Farm and BS. Both locations have taken a serious beating and need the support.

[BigDork]

I've learned the hard way that reversing out of a face off like this is usually a losing proposition... better to stay and duke it out. Moving you will most likely miss if the STuG fires, and there is a chance that he will be the one to blink and attempt to reverse out of the fight, leaving himself vulnerable. It's a nail biter regardless when making these types of decisions and waiting for that next turn can be torture!

I knew I was taking a risk but I didn't think I had much of a choice. Prior to my relocation my StuG's TC could see the Sherman but my gunner couldn't. So I would have had to drive forward before I could fire on the Sherman either way. I was thinking that by reversing out of sight the Sherman may focus on something else and then I could get the drop on it. I also really wanted to put a bit of space between my armor and that burning R35. The smoke was screwing with my field of fire.

The more I think about it the more I wonder if Penry's Sherman even saw my vehicle at all. It never fired on me and it definitely had some opportunities. Guess I'll find out in a bit when this battle's over.

Thanks for making the AAR - good read!

One suggestion: button your Stugs. The awareness to the front is not much worse buttoned but loosing the TC is.

I learned that lesson the hard way with one of my StuG's. It's a darn good suggestion though at this point in the fight. Glad you're enjoying it!

You fled??? How can your men respect you if you flee? How can you expect them to charge into the teeth of a machinegun if you run? Oh. Then you advanced. Well done.

I did not flee, it was a tactical relocation of my armor. As for respect, that's easy to gain. I just threaten to send them to the Eastern Front if they disobey.

[BigDork]

Turn 41

I never get tired of watching American halftracks explode. I'm just amazed how many of them there are. Penry has to be running out.

But while I'm having success against his halftracks my men in the Farm continue to be fired upon and abused. Thankfully the defenders I have left are in decent cover and somehow a full German squad and their commander has survived the earlier barrages. Those men coupled with the StuG makes me feel good about my ability to hold the location.

I'm still having a hard time finding the Americans that are roaming around at BS. Thankfully all they've been doing is moving back and forth and around and haven't caused too many problems for my men. I'm hopeful that one of these units will wander too close to one of my awaiting units.

While BS is having some issues with defense and lack of men, BN is fully stacked. I don't think there's any way it would be possibly for Penry to take this location. I'm feeling so confident in fact I plan on moving up my German infantry towards the treeline to see if I can't really spoil Penry's ambitions more than I already have.

[BigDork]

Turn 42 and 43

The 42nd minute was the quietest in quite some time. That quiet was punctuated by the Sherman on the bridge brewing up in one big, fierce explosion. I hope there were some Americans still in the vicinity. That could have been a nasty surprise for them.

My StuG at BN has been attempting to engage with the Sherman in the back of Penry's area for a couple minutes. My single-minded focus on getting the American tank almost cost me my vehicle.

.50 cal MG fire started to plink off my armor and then suddenly a tree right in front of my StuG caught a shell. Wisely my TC ordered a reverse to the back side of the hill since he did not know where this new fire was coming from.

Penry did a great job of moving one of his GMCs into position to fire on my assault gun. While the thing has crap armor that 75mm gun would have caused me some problems. He's in a great position and has basically denied my StuG that ridge for the time being. I'll have to figure out a way to get rid of the halftrack.

I knew moving my other StuG at BN over near where the two tanks I'd lost earlier was probably a bad move. And it proved to be. Something got a shot on my vehicle but thankfully it didn't do any real damage. My StuG threw it into reverse and will be safe.

Planning

I'm really going to have to think about what to do with my assault guns at BN. Considering how this battle is going I may just leave them out of sight for a while. As it is I'm pretty sure I've got this thing won. I don't see a point in needlessly using my StuGs.

[BigDork]

Turn 14:59-14:00

The battle takes a serious turn for the worse when I suddenly spot one Sherman and hear several others coming from behind the hill. A few StuGs vs a platoon of M4s aren't great odds in my favor.

Sure enough, a few seconds later I spot several more American tanks joining the fight. I suddenly have a bad feeling about how this is going to go down.

The new arrivals waste no time in silencing my assault gun I have at the Farm. Things were already tenuous at the Farm and the loss of my StuG will only make it that much worse.

As the minute ends I find one of my remaining StuGs staring down four Shermans. The odds are bad but I'm hopeful that he'll at least remove one American tank from the fight.

[BigDork]

Turn 13:59 - 13:00

Well, so much for that. My StuG is taken out without even firing a shot. I had really hoped he would have gotten at least one Yank first but no luck.

And the no luck thing continues with my StuG up at BN. As he rotated to try and engage the newly arrived M4s one of the halftracks manages to get a hit. It's not a killing blow but some damage is done. In the following seconds my StuG is hit by one of the Shermans and again by the halftrack. None of the hits knock the assault gun out but there's spalling and crew injuries.

My StuG did manage to get a single shot off before backing behind the hill towards BN. I am irked that he missed with those five juicy targets all right next to each other. I'd give my left leg for a fighter-bomber to show up right around now.

As the turn ticks down the unmistakable scream of an incoming round is yet again heard. And again the target is the Farm. As if things weren't bad enough there already. Another barrage is going to totally destroy what little defenses I have left.

[BigDork]

Turn 12:59-11:00

The combination of incoming artillery accompanied by direct fire from the Shermans easily and quickly breaks and destroys my meager resistance at the Farm. The position is lost and I have no hopes of being able to retake it with my current forces.

Knowing that the Farm is ripe for the taking Penry orders his men over the bridge, past his fallen men and burning tanks and towards the objective. Unlike before where my men stopped the Americans at the river crossing, this time they easily made it.

Here is an overview of the map at the 11:00 mark. All that green on the Farm side of the river spells the end of the battle for me. Those three Shermans fanned out are firing on anything that moves. With no way to neutralize those tanks, there's no way I can win.

Planning

The Farm is lost but the battle isn't over yet. I still hold both barns. And while Penry can easily drive around and blast my guys from the fields. Let's see if he's brave enough to drive those tanks into the woods.

[BigDork]

Turn 08:59-07:00

My one hope for causing a bit of pain for Penry was a mortar team in the woods of BS. Unfortunately they are spotted by the Americans before they can take out any halftracks or cause serious hurt to the men rushing the Farm.

I knew it was probably futile but I had parked my remaining Italian tankette on the border of the woods near BS, out of sight of the Americans but with a firing lane on the Farm. It proved to perform about as well as I expected. They didn't spot anything or shoot at anything but they are drawing some fire.

Unfortunately my last StuG is drawing fire too. Accurate fire. I had attempted to relocate it from one side of BN to the other. The position he was in before was completely unusable so instead of leaving him back on my side of the hill and daring Penry to come get it I tried to drive it around the back. Bad idea.

The R35 was soon to follow. With him gone I'm officially out of armor and hope and soon... men.

[BigDork]

Over the next few minutes very little happens. I have my men hunker down and await death or the order to retreat. Needing some intel or just being cocky, Penry orders a Sherman into the woods near BN.

Turn 00:59 - End

The Sherman drives into the woods, fully aware that my infantry is lurking about. As the Americans engaged an Italian unit, I ordered two brave German soldiers forward with a pair of rifle grenades. The first shot is a hit! Unfortunately I quickly learn it wasn't a killing blow.

My brave soldier stands firm and lines up his next shot even as the turret starts to traverse his way. With a silent prayer he pulls the trigger and hits again!

Despite a second penetration it isn't enough. A quick burst of MG fire and it's over. That man earned a medal but it will be awarded posthumously

Several more minutes play out without much of note. A few more Italians are blasted by the Sherman at BN before it reverses to safety. Other than that I sit and wait for the end.

I'm in no way surprised by the end results. I knew that even with holding BN and BS that Penry was going to carry the day. I'm very pleased with my kill total in both men and machine. While we lost the fight we made the Americans pay for this plot of land.

And here's the final map. As you can see, there's green everywhere.

[BigDork]

Final Thoughts

What a battle!!! Talk about one with some serious swings. I have a hunch Penry was thinking of throwing in the towel at one point and if so, I'm so glad he chose to stick this battle out.

It took Penry a bit to get things going. I think he had some poor planning in the beginning. If he'd dropped a bunch of smoke before his first big rush I think things could have gone far differently and much worse for me. But eventually he got things rolling and wow did the battle get good. I should have used my StuGs far better. I basically sent them off die one at a time. Stupid.

Things were over when the Shermans showed up. There was nothing I could do to stop them. I had a faint hope that by hunkering down I could get a draw with the casualties I caused and holding the two barns. That didn't quite work out but that's okay by me.

Stay tuned, the second part of this battle should be starting soon!

[John Kettler]

Big Dork,

I suspect you won that reverse and creep forward fight (nice vid!) against the Sherman because a) you broke visual contact and then had a much lower profile than he did, making him easier to spot, a situation further improved by your elevation advantage which should've partially negated his bow armor. I believe that while elevation and depression aren't modeled in the gun end, they are in the projectile angle of arrival calculation.

That herd of Shermans reminds me of POS's tank fist tactic. If you can't have an airstrike, then, say, a railway artillery shell would wreak havoc, possibly killing the lot!

Much appreciate your DAR/AAR, and I did think Penry was in deep kimchi. Repeatedly. I think what happened, though, reflects how brittle the Italians are under heavy fire. I bet, though, you've given a number of people serious pause as to what the Italians can do, if intelligently handled. Now, if you swapped out those 47mm ATGs for German- supplied Pak-40s and replayed the scenario. Have posted the period and on YT proof!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Penry]

Great write up BD!

I've been itching for the game to finish for ages, so I can read your version of events. Thankfully my memory isn't as shot as I thought it was and all those memories, good and bad, came flooding back!

Looking forward to the reverse of this pig of a map. Prepare to feel the pain!