The scale of the map

[Sapare]

I know the map is tileways much bigger then even the WW1 map(96k tiles compared to 30(ish)k tiles?) but I was curious what the scale was of this map.

While at it, what is the scale of the other maps(AOC and WW1 Europe)?

[Altaris]

From the screenshots, it looked like this game was about 1/2 the scale of WW1. That's still really big for a global map, should allow for good maneuvering.

[xwormwood]

96.800 Tiles (484x200) = AoD

39.168 Tiles (384x102) = SC WW1 / Breakthrough

16.896 Tiles (265x064) = SC Global Conflict / Gold

16.896 Tiles (256x064) = SC 2 Blitzkrieg Global Map (= Patch 1.07)

09.768 Tiles (132x074) = AoC (i may be wrong here, calculated this on my own)

05.320 Tiles (140x038) = SC 2 Blitzkrieg

[abukede]

That map is crazy large.

[Big Al]

AoC is right.

[Sapare]

96.800 Tiles (484x200) = AoD

39.168 Tiles (384x102) = SC WW1 / Breakthrough

16.896 Tiles (265x064) = SC Global Conflict / Gold

16.896 Tiles (256x064) = SC 2 Blitzkrieg Global Map (= Patch 1.07)

09.768 Tiles (132x074) = AoC (i may be wrong here, calculated this on my own)

05.320 Tiles (140x038) = SC 2 Blitzkrieg

Thanks but these are the ones I knew, that is why my question was to what scale the map was. How much square kilometers(or miles if you wish... lol) is each field would be interesting to know.

[mcaryf1]

Hi Big Al

Given the significant increase in map scale has the limit of 25 AP for a unit been increased? Global Conflict could only just give realistic naval movement if you set it to weekly turns so the ranges should be much more for a map with 6 times as many squares. A WW2 Cruiser could travel well over 2,000 nautical miles within a 7-day period.

Regards

Mike

[Big Al]

Hi Big Al

Given the significant increase in map scale has the limit of 25 AP for a unit been increased? Global Conflict could only just give realistic naval movement if you set it to weekly turns so the ranges should be much more for a map with 6 times as many squares. A WW2 Cruiser could travel well over 2,000 nautical miles within a 7-day period.

Regards

Mike

True but its worse than that. A ship can easily travel across the Pacific in 1 week. Look at how long the Jap fleet to hit Pearl Harbor, 1 week if I remember and that's a lot of squares.

That's why there are loops BTW

[xwormwood]

One mans loop is another mans warp point.

After all the unit leaves the map board via loop arrow and jumps some turns later out of space back into a target tile.

All nations without space fighters can't intercept these jumps.

I beg to differ that the loops are the right answer for a large map.

[Big Al]

One mans loop is another mans warp point.

After all the unit leaves the map board via loop arrow and jumps some turns later out of space back into a target tile.

All nations without space fighters can't intercept these jumps.

I beg to differ that the loops are the right answer for a large map.

It isn't, sea zones are like you previously said I believe. But we have to use what we got.

But one thing to consider is the size of the Atlantic or Pacific. It is almost impossible to find a ship in the middle of an enormous ocean.

Look at the Bismark. The Royal navy had 2 CVs, 7 BB/BC, 12 CAs, and I don't know how many supporting DDs to chase it down. The only reason it didn't get away was one mistake and one lucky torpedo hit.

Its very VERY hard to find ships in the middle of either of those 2 oceans. That's why the loops are there.

Believe me I love sea zones. I think that is a good simply solution.

[SeaMonkey]

Also agree Al. There are essentially "dead zones" where the Oceans are so vast that travel through them was uneventful in WW2. In today's combat environment I would sit in your house xwood, but the isolated incident that you refer to so rarely happened that it's not worth the attention of the SC scale.

[Hubert Cater]

For now the max AP range is still set to 25... while we realize that ships should travel farther one real problem is we have to balance this out with maximizing AI speed and the longer the ranges we put in the more it potentially slows down the AI on the naval movement turns.

This is also one of the reasons we use loops. While I can certainly accept the criticisms, and that it is not always an ideal solution throughout, it does help and sometimes we have to balance out game play with other playability factors.

[mcaryf1]

I guess loops it is. I rather liked an implementation that I think Nupremal had whereby ownership of strategic locations such as Midway impacted whether you could use a particular loop or not e.g. one or more loops that might enable CVs to emerge in a position ready to attack either Japan or the West Coast USA.. This gives a decent reason for wanting to capture that island and reflects the real reason why Japan tried to capture it.

Another possibility might be a "fleet train" event whereby some loops only operate if you have spent money to invest in the sort of fleet train that the US built up so that its TFs could stay at sea almost indefinitely.

Regards

Mike

[mathiasbw]

and 2 versions of the global map (with and without loops) is not possible? or a button to change that?

[Big Al]

You can modify it in the editor fairly easily.

[Hubert Cater]

Actually you don't even have to use the Editor, the loops can easily be disabled in game when you start a campaign by going to OPTIONS->ADVANCED->SCRIPTS and then selecting Loop events.

Simply deselect the loops you don't want in game and they are disabled for the life of the campaign even if they still appear on the map.

Hope this helps,

Hubert

[mathiasbw]

thanks, then i must not delete the loops with the editor, but i must not add more sea tiles that i have the correct oceans size?

[Sapare]

Not to be a douche, but the original question never actully got an answer and my topic fully highjacked.(Also, how does AI and loops/disabling loops work?)

[mcaryf1]

Hi Sapare

My apologies as I was one of those that highjacked your thread to ask about AP ranges. The trouble with your original question was that there is no single answer as the amount of the globe covered by an SC square depends on where it is relative to the Equator because the map is essentially a projection of the globe. The circumference of the Earth is about 21,000 nautical miles at the Equator so if AOD is 484 by 200 then the squares at the Equator are about 42 nm by 105nm. However as you head up or down towards the Poles the amount of ground covered by each square is much less so the scale reduces and through Europe it might be about half that size.

Another way to think about it is that the surface area of the Earth is 500 million square kilometers. There are 96,000 SC squares in AOD so each square on average would represent a bit over 5,000 square KM so about 100km x 50km but of course as pointed out above the squares do not all represent the same size on the ground.

Regards

Mike

[Bill101]

Hi Sapare

The WWI map is approximately 1 tile = 20 miles, while the Assault on Democracy's Global map is approximately 1 tile = 50 miles.

Bill

[Sapare]

Hi Sapare

The WWI map is approximately 1 tile = 20 miles, while the Assault on Democracy's Global map is approximately 1 tile = 50 miles.

Bill

What maniac still uses miles?

... Damn American's should have lost the war...

(JK, don't shoot me)

But thankyou for that answer, it helps to put scale more into perspective.

And thankyou to mcaryf1 too, I had actully forgoten to consider the whole different distances at different places on the earth.

So overall, in very broad terms, AOD is a 1/2 scale of WW1 map. Now go make a 1/1 scale to the WW1 map!(I am confident the game would explode with how many tiles that would have to be..)

[crispy131313]

If the map gets much bigger we're going to have to start moving the potato and turnip wagons too.

[Bill101]

What maniac still uses miles?

... Damn American's should have lost the war...

LOL, though I'm not even American!!

[Sapare]

LOL, though I'm not even American!!

But...but Americans are the only people who still use miles... what insanity is this?! ;p

[mcaryf1]

Actually British road signs are still in mph and how about ships are their speeds described in kilometers or knots/nautical miles where you come from?

Regards

Mike