James Crowley Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 You know the gods of war are really not on your side when the following happens. Close bocage country; known Panther on other side of high bocage, exact location unknown. Bit risky but you take the chance and nose into the thicket.....and there it is! Literally dead ahead and nose on, 25 metres away! Both vehicles lined up like gunfighters but the M-10 gets the drop and shoots first. Blam! Direct hit, front upper hull and off goes the round into the air! The Panthers gunner panics and his shot goes high. The M-10 fires again, hits the same location; no effect. Twice, at 25m ? Still panicked, the Panther fires high yet again and the M-10 gets in it's third shot. Same location, same result, no effect, nothing! Three hits with a 3in gun at 25 yds with zero effect :confused: The Panthers third shot was not high. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I knew this post was coming... I just knew it... Video to follow shortly. And yes Jon this is still all your fault!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGriffin Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Your pain pales in comparison to mine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$Pec5 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I had a similar thing happen with my m10 against a tiger. Two shots failed to penetrate the tiger's front at less than 50 meters. These things happen. Tigers and Panthers have extremely strong front armor and the m10's gun isn't even the best AT gun the allies fielded. Maybe the result would have been different had you been playing as the Britts and instead on an m10 you had an Achilles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGriffin Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I've had plenty of less-than-impressive M10 shots. It's painful to watch. Head-on against a Panther or Tiger, one unlucky shot and the armor of the M10 will probably not survive the retaliatory hit. Now I try to position them for flanking shots against the heavies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Teacher Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 GreenGriffin I havnt laughed so loud in two months, exceptional clip. All those poor pixeltroopers gone in a flash, not to mention the jeep and other tank. cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGriffin Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Haha, thank you. Sorry, didn't mean to distract from the topic at hand, but thought the OP could use a quick laugh to ease his own pain 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Just getting video on to You Tube. I saw the thread about your losses and just watched the video that is a serious dent in your plan. It did happen and I can remember reading about officers planning an attack getting wiped by mortar round. Wiped out a lot of senior men in one go. Not nice... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 I knew this post was coming... I just knew it... Video to follow shortly. And yes Jon this is still all your fault!!! Hehe. I'm not complaining. Stuff like this needs to happen sometimes; it adds colour to the story and all sorts of weird and wonderful things happen in war. Having said that, if it happened all the time, i.e if no 76mm round could ever penetrate at point blank range, I would have my suspicions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Any penetration obtained by the 76 on the Panther front glacis should be on the freakish side of lucky. Without HVAP it just was not up to the job, at any range. With HVAP you would still need a good dose of luck, if the Isigny tests may be taken for typical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Your pain pales in comparison to mine you should get court-martialled anyway doing the whole parking-lot exercise in prolongation of a road and w/o smoke ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Here is the video I had thought the M10 could take out a Panther front on? I did some reading of other threads earlier in the game and I thought I read the Panther could be taken? Anyway glad it did not die, and surprised it took three attempts to hit the M10 at such short range... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Any penetration obtained by the 76 on the Panther front glacis should be on the freakish side of lucky. Without HVAP it just was not up to the job, at any range. yes you need to hit the soft spot (if it isn't a late Ausf G) ... or you're cooked (literally if sitting in a ronson ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 The Panther glacis is one of the toughest armored fronts in the game, if not THE toughest. The M10's gun was a makeshift solution; it was not up to snuff. I'm not sure HVAP would've worked, either. (References not at hand.) Shatter gap and all that... If you have an AFV staring at the front of a Panther, it's time for you to move your AFV. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Here is the video I had thought the M10 could take out a Panther front on? I did some reading of other threads earlier in the game and I thought I read the Panther could be taken? Anyway glad it did not die, and surprised it took three attempts to hit the M10 at such short range... if you penetrated the panther glacis with the 76er you should play in the lotery the same day 'cause it's your special verrrry lucky day. you can penetrate at the soft spot - but to hit this spot is another lotery of its own ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Now I try to position them for flanking shots against the heavies. but here an advice from a veteran - especially when looking at your performance as a commander in the parking-lot exercise - even for a flanking shot never expose your tank more than 15 seconds !!!! Usually 10 seconds is enough to ID the target, to aim and to shoot. The panther turret turns 360 degrees in 15 to 45 seconds ... so as soon as you expose your tank you have something between 5 and 15 seconds until the panther has zoomed in on you so better be quick to get back into cover again ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Well a second Panther (in Battle) has just died front on from a M10. 1st shot I saw missed (could have been others I did not see) 2nd Shot partial penetration. 3rd Shot kill I think via a Turret hit? So I guess Turret is the weak spot... Mind you I am hoping I have whacked the killer with a side turret shot from Mr Lucky the other Panther... but video stopped before results could be seen..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Here's a good read from the resident tank buff from World of Tanks. http://worldoftanks.com/news/919-chieftains-hatch-us-guns-vs-german-armour-part-1/ http://worldoftanks.com/news/1006-us-guns-german-armor-part-2/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGriffin Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 but here an advice from a veteran - especially when looking at your performance as a commander in the parking-lot exercise - even for a flanking shot never expose your tank more than 15 seconds !!!! Usually 10 seconds is enough to ID the target, to aim and to shoot. The panther turret turns 360 degrees in 15 to 45 seconds ... so as soon as you expose your tank you have something between 5 and 15 seconds until the panther has zoomed in on you so better be quick to get back into cover again ... Hey, I wasn't "parking" my men there lol. Only the two Shermans were supposed to be sitting there to watch the road. The men were crossing paths on the way to their respective routes when they all got caught in the nasty ka-boom Yes, I'm definitely taking a shot with the M10, then scooting back out of sight. Rinse and repeat. Working pretty well so far. Or, I try to keep hull down, but I find that difficult to do reliably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Any penetration obtained by the 76 on the Panther front glacis should be on the freakish side of lucky. Without HVAP it just was not up to the job, at any range. With HVAP you would still need a good dose of luck, if the Isigny tests may be taken for typical. What about the Turret? I have skimmed the test reports and can find no conclusion on the ability to penetrate turrets front on of the Panther? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Well a second Panther (in Battle) has just died front on from a M10. 1st shot I saw missed (could have been others I did not see) 2nd Shot partial penetration. 3rd Shot kill I think via a Turret hit? So I guess Turret is the weak spot... Mind you I am hoping I have whacked the killer with a side turret shot from Mr Lucky the other Panther... but video stopped before results could be seen..... That is more like it, No, not a good practice, but m10's can take on panthers from the front if no other option is available. I think part of the problem with the situation mentioned is. They have better luck in the game if there is distance rather than if they are right next to the panther. It has to do with the auto mid mass aiming point maybe. At 25 meters you are going to hit just where you dont want to. Not sure, put I have had more luck killing panthers at 300 meters than at 25 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Holien - we don't need tests for that, we have lots and lots of dead Panthers as proof. At short ranges, the US 76mm firing plain AP reliably penetrated the Panther turret front. This was seen in Normandy repeatedly and in the fighting in the Lorraine (where fog rather than hedgerows kept the typical initial range short). 400-500 meters or less, no problem. Beyond that is where shatter became an issue. By the usual penetration equations, the US 76mm should have been able to penetrate the Panther turret front out to 1000 to 1200 meters. But in practice, from 500 yards the shells starting breaking up on the impact rather than going in. Not always, at the shorter side of that range, but sometimes, and enough to make the US tankers (and TDers) want APCR starting around that range. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 OK so Panther can be killed easily with Turret shots but hull shots they should be OK. Good to know, I am sure I perhaps once knew this but I am a bit older since CM1. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 God dammit Jason, someone finally mistook me for a guy that might know something and then you go and answer their question for me. But yeah, that answer sounds about right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 OK so Panther can be killed easily with Turret shots but hull shots they should be OK. Most of the front turret area on the Panther is covered by the gun mantlet which is rounded and therefore gives variable protection depending on what part is struck. As mentioned previously, at 200-300 meters or less you can penetrate it reliably with US 76mm, but by 500 meters it becomes more of a gamble. The lower front hull can also be penetrated by US 76mm, but at what range varies with different models of Panther. In both cases M10 late HVAP ammo makes these two areas more reliably penetrated and at longer ranges, but does nothing against the glacis plate. The Panther glacis plate, i.e. the "Upper Front Hull" can normally only be penetrated by the British 17 pdr gun, and even then only when using APDS ammunition. Lower quality armor sometimes seen on D model Panthers may allow penetration by "regular" 17 pdr ammunition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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