An astounding plan for Battlefront

[Georgie]

Take the CMBN parameters for some of the weapons effects, ie, German PZ lV 75mm vs the Sherman, the effectiveness of the faust and shreck and patch CM1 and I will buy new copies of CM1, or pay for the upgrade. These changes would change the outcome of many battles that I fought over the years using CM1 and revitalize the game.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Hmm. With regard to anti-armor weapons, I have seen no major differences between CMBN and the later CMx1 games (the effectiveness of the German 75mm vs Sherman was tweaked in CMAK to where it's about the same as in CMBN). The only major change in weapons effects is in the effect of HE on infantry, particularly small caliber HE. In this instance I am not at all convinced CMBN is the more accurate representation of reality. In fact, I strongly suspect it is not.

Machine guns also seem to be a little less effective in CMBN, but they are getting a little buff so we will see.

[Georgie]

Hmm. With regard to anti-armor weapons, I have seen no major differences between CMBN and the later CMx1 games (the effectiveness of the German 75mm vs Sherman was tweaked in CMAK to where it's about the same as in CMBN). The only major change in weapons effects is in the effect of HE on infantry, particularly small caliber HE. In this instance I am not at all convinced CMBN is the more accurate representation of reality. In fact, I strongly suspect it is not.

Machine guns also seem to be a little less effective in CMBN, but they are getting a little buff so we will see.

Hello Vanir, I don't know if the weapons effect in CMBN is more correct but I believe that if it were implemented in the CM1 games that it would give the CM1 games a little bit of a boost in interest for some fans. It would for me because I used to become frustrated and would have loved for my extra heavy W version Sherman to have at least shrugged off one hit from a Pz iv 75.

[YankeeDog]

BFC has said some years ago that they are done with revising CMx1 code and there's been no hint of them changing their mind on this; I really don't think you're likely to make any headway here. I'd not like they're sitting round, twiddling their thumbs and looking for things to do.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Hello Vanir, I don't know if the weapons effect in CMBN is more correct but I believe that if it were implemented in the CM1 games that it would give the CM1 games a little bit of a boost in interest for some fans.

I assume by "CM1" you are referring specifically to CMBO? BFC would not even back port changes from CMBB and CMAK to CMBO. And believe me they were asked to repeatedly.

But as I said, I think there is little difference between CMBN and CMAK with regards to armor.

[Barkhorn1x]

Take the CMBN parameters for some of the weapons effects, ie, German PZ lV 75mm vs the Sherman, the effectiveness of the faust and shreck and patch CM1 and I will buy new copies of CM1, or pay for the upgrade.

Unfortunatly you, and the 10 - at most - other guys like you, are not going to pay for the effort needed to patch CM1.

That game system is - what - 13 years old? Ancient history. What you suggest is akin to slapping some metalic paint on a Model T. CMBO is a museam piece. That's just the way it is.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I recall a post Steve made where he said Charles opened up the CMBB code to help with the CMBB Campaigns project only to realize he didn't remember how the game worked anymore.

[altipueri]

I am one of the ten. I want CMx1.5.

[Georgie]

Unfortunatly you, and the 10 - at most - other guys like you, are not going to pay for the effort needed to patch CM1.

That game system is - what - 13 years old? Ancient history. What you suggest is akin to slapping some metalic paint on a Model T. CMBO is a museam piece. That's just the way it is.

CM1 isn't 13years old for those who are still playing it and certainly hasn't been replaced by CMBN. Two different games. CM1 more akin to a board game and CM2 more akin to a modern shooter. Neither the same but both have different things to offer. Hate to think that Battlefront would scrap something that still had some profit to offer for probably very little effort. I don't think that they thought of this aspect and the profit that a little change would offer. We don't want to judge antiquity by the same criteria that other games do. If we did then Battlelfront would have been kaput many years ago and we would have never seen the excellent CMBN.

[YankeeDog]

I think you are vastly underestimating the amount of time and effort it would take to make even "minor" changes to a CMx1 game at this point, Georgie. No one at Battlefront has worked with the CMx1 code in more than 5 years. It would probably take them a couple of weeks of work just to re-familiarize themselves with the code before they could even start making revisions.

But yeah; The CMx1 series are fun games. If I had more time for gaming, I might go back and play CMx1 every once in a while, too. Enjoy them for what they are.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Hate to think that Battlefront would scrap something that still had some profit to offer for probably very little effort. I don't think that they thought of this aspect and the profit that a little change would offer.

Just buy CMAK. Seriously. CMBN-like armor and penetration values in a CMx1 engine. I think there is even a mod that changes the terrain to look like NW Europe. You do miss a few unit types like King Tigers, but most of what you want is there.

[Michael Emrys]

I think there is even a mod that changes the terrain to look like NW Europe.

Actually, that came with the game. I think the only important terrain type that was missing was bocage type hedgerows, and since I was never very happy with that as depicted in CMx1, I didn't miss it.

Michael

[Vanir Ausf B]

Actually, that came with the game.

WesternFront - total conversion

David Ingletts CMAK European Theater Mod

[Placebo]

Why?? I cannot go back to CM1 now CM2 is out and such a class above the CM1 engine.

[dieseltaylor]

Hmm 104 posts since 2001. Hardly seem much of a fan to the CMx1 series!!! : )

I fing CMAK the most playable game that BF made. And for playable also read enjoyable.

All the effort in making a better scenario AI and all the guff for solo play seems monumentally wasted for those players who play humans. Perhaps BF will one day realise that providing two different games optimised for the two sorts of play is/was actually the better move.

[altipueri]

Yes I kind of think they should consider RT only and WEGO only versions rather than continuing with a combination that doesn't quite do as well as separate UI could achieve.

Must try that CMAK mod. Was playing CMBO earlier this morning - Toulon Nightlife scenario.

[Barkhorn1x]

Yes I kind of think they should consider RT only and WEGO only versions rather than continuing with a combination that doesn't quite do as well as separate UI could achieve.

Much like the other suggestions in this thread - never going to happen.

[altipueri]

I shall have to make another offering to St. Jude. Then it will.

[Erwin]

I rather wish BF did completely abandon CM1 as then maybe they would give it to someone else to work on. The fact that they want to hold onto it makes it appear that they do see value in it and don't want it revived as it could take customers away from their more profitable CM2.

CM1 is alive and well at various fan sites like WeBOB: http://webandofbrothers.yuku.com/

[slysniper]

I rather wish BF did completely abandon CM1 as then maybe they would give it to someone else to work on. The fact that they want to hold onto it makes it appear that they do see value in it and don't want it revived as it could take customers away from their more profitable CM2.

CM1 is alive and well at various fan sites like WeBOB: http://webandofbrothers.yuku.com/

Yes, but it likely has much more to do with how they go about creating the game and that they try to limit letting out how many can see how they write code. It sucks to have competition from another source if all they did was steal and mimic your code.

That is my theory as to why they will not let out even that outdated game, just dont want to give away any trade secrets if they dont have to.

[Redwolf]

I fing CMAK the most playable game that BF made. And for playable also read enjoyable.

This.

If nothing else, CMx1 was one thing: a very efficient game. You could express your plan in a very efficient manner and you spent a comparably high percentage of your play time thinking about tactics and planning.

Now you need a PhD in action spot mechanics, you needs to nudge everything according to crazy out-of-contact and LOS rules, and half of your people wander off, and you always have to worry about cover and even if you have cover whether your people use it.

[noob]

Now you need a PhD in action spot mechanics

Thats what i like about CMx2, not only is it a good game, it's also an excellent idiot filter

[Apocal]

This.

If nothing else, CMx1 was one thing: a very efficient game. You could express your plan in a very efficient manner and you spent a comparably high percentage of your play time thinking about tactics and planning.

Now you need a PhD in action spot mechanics, you needs to nudge everything according to crazy out-of-contact and LOS rules, and half of your people wander off, and you always have to worry about cover and even if you have cover whether your people use it.

What? Line-of-sight is pretty simplistic, favoring the spotter too much. C2 is pretty simple as well, the most complex thing is getting that radio-less units in voice contact (1 action spot?) get the benefit of having the radio, which isn't reflected in their C2 display AFAIK.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I rather wish BF did completely abandon CM1 as then maybe they would give it to someone else to work on. The fact that they want to hold onto it makes it appear that they do see value in it and don't want it revived as it could take customers away from their more profitable CM2.

The more likely explanation is that they are still making money off of it.

"We're still selling CMx1 games some 9-12 years later, though obviously not many these days."

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1408168&postcount=36

[Georgie]

Just buy CMAK. Seriously. CMBN-like armor and penetration values in a CMx1 engine. I think there is even a mod that changes the terrain to look like NW Europe. You do miss a few unit types like King Tigers, but most of what you want is there.

I already have CMAK but didn't play it very much and didn't notice the difference in penetration values between CMAK and CMBO. I'll fire it up and check it out. First thing I'll try is to see if the W version Sherman can take even one frontal hit by a Pz IV without blowing up. Did you notice if the effectiveness of the shreck and the faust were toned down in CMAK?