undercovergeek Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 In a recent PBEM i managed to sneak all the way around a Germand held hill, came up the back with a few US airborne troops to attack the mortars there. One turn ended with the troops just under the brow of the hill, the next turn plotted the troops to run over the top and mow down the mortar crews. It never occurred to me to check the composition of the squads, as it turned out they all had rifles and there was no slaughter of the crews with SMGs that i imagined - all my fault, not complaining BUT when i check a German squad there is a handsome mix of SMGs and rifles - i was hard pressed to find an SMG in my airborne squads - is there a US/UK troop choice that is a bit more 'assault-y' than airborne? Even splitting the squads into an 'assault' group only yields one SMG. BTW i choose airborne because theyre as hard as nails and hardly break - even at 'normal', no veteran or fanatic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Other than the Germans and Brits, the US never had smgs in their infantry toes officially, so they were issued rather haphazardly. The 29th Division for example reports having no Thompsons at all on DDay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 In the airborne, a trooper could ask for and get almost any personal weapon he wanted. Many of them were carrying pistols in addition to their primary weapon so that they would have something to return fire with before they had unfastened their harnesses. So exactly how they would be armed in practice didn't always have a lot to do with the official TO&E. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 If you want to beef up your tommy guns as a scenario designer, cut the headcount of each rifle squad to 80% and add 3 Scout teams to the platoon. The 3 man teams carry 2 Thompsons and 2 demo charges. Very handy for Assault type actions. Only drawback is permanently split squads (tho you can still split the reduced squads). OTOH this may be an accurate representation of how Airborne squads actually worked on the (ad hoc) attack during the chaotic first days behind enemy lines in dense country, especially if the Scouts are a step higher than the squads in exp and morale. Lots of anecdotes of "Sgt Rock" types doing most of the killing themselves while the others largely follow like dazed sheep (SLA Marshall's Night Drop is what comes to mind though, so season to taste) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 OTOH this may be an accurate representation of how Airborne squads actually worked on the (ad hoc) attack during the chaotic first days behind enemy lines in dense country, especially if the Scouts are a step higher than the squads in exp and morale. Lots of anecdotes of "Sgt Rock" types doing most of the killing themselves while the others largely follow like dazed sheep (SLA Marshall's Night Drop is what comes to mind though, so season to taste) But also seems to be supported by Nordyke and Bob Murphy (No Better Place to Die). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 And by the immortal Major Wigram ("gutful men") of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 BTW, anyone wanting to read a book about a particularly pugnacious bunch of soldiers should give a look at The Filthy Thirteen. http://www.amazon.com/Filthy-Thirteen-Airbornes-Legendary-Paratroopers/dp/1932033467/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350026071&sr=1-1&keywords=the+filthy+thirteen They were the Sabotage and Demolition Platoon of the Headquarters Company of the 506th. PIR. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 undercovergeek, I recall that in CMBO people used to use American Airborne specifically because it had several guys with SMGs. People used to use paratroops to represent more heavily armed American infantry squads. Michael Emrys, Wiki even has something on them, to include the famous pic. Saw the book years ago, wanted it, but didn't have the money. Small platoon! More like a slightly enlarged squad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filthy_Thirteen Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Small platoon! More like a slightly enlarged squad. True. I don't now recall whether the book refers to them as a platoon or I inadvertently gave them an organizational upgrade. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I played an auto-generated QB the other days as Brit airborne. I was very surprised to find that some of the squads were almost completely armed with stens. I can't remember exactly, but I think they were basically like--LMG/PIAT plus stens with no rifles. It was the first time I'd seen that. I don't know what the details of the formation were--just that it was elements of a company and not the full CO (tiny probe, playing defender). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 During the battle of Brest the 2nd Infantry Division was issued additional smgs and (according to some sources) fully automatic M1 Carbines to assist in street fighting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Are there any scenarios covering the siege of Brest? heheh, he thaid "brest"! heheh! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The battle took place in September 1944, so it might be something for that market garden dlc people are talking about. Couldn't hurt to include a "streetfighting" option for Infantry Companies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Keeping my fingers crossed for flat-roofed "industrial" buildings! And maybe high-bay warehouses (like barns, but bigger and sturdier walls). Try playing with the equipment quality settings for various subunits: Excellent to Poor. In some cases, it will give them more or fewer automatics relative to riflemen. It definitely made a big difference in CMSF; I haven't explored the feature so much here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Keeping my fingers crossed for flat-roofed "industrial" buildings! And maybe high-bay warehouses (like barns, but bigger and sturdier walls). Try playing with the equipment quality settings for various subunits: Excellent to Poor. In some cases, it will give them more or fewer automatics relative to riflemen. It definitely made a big difference in CMSF; I haven't explored the feature so much here. Yes, that feature does work well for the Germans, at least. More MP44's with better experience/quality units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 IMO MP44 are a tad over represented ingame right now, I have even seen Ost units with MP44s, which is highly unlikely. According to their June 1944 status reports the 352nd Infanterie of Omaha Beach and St Lo fame didn't have any either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Ts4EVER, Welcome aboard! I've handled one but not shot it--the M2 Carbine. Selectable for semiautomatic and full automatic fire. LongLeftFlank, There's also one in Belarus. I'll leave the rest of the word play to you! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 IMO MP44 are a tad over represented ingame right now, I have even seen Ost units with MP44s, which is highly unlikely. According to their June 1944 status reports the 352nd Infanterie of Omaha Beach and St Lo fame didn't have any either. Hmmm, not my experience, but I usually play regular infantry--middling quality--and only about one or sometimes two guys in a whole platoon will have them, max. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Yeah that's what I mean. To give you an idea of how rare they were in Normandy: The 2nd SS Panzer (Das Reich), which is usually regarded as one of the better equipped units in the theatre had a whopping 41 in the whole division. The 12th SS also reports several "experimental rifles" which I took to mean MP44s or MkB42s. There is archaeological evidence that the Fallschirmjägers around St Lo had some (for example, some of the "Kurz" ammunition used by the rifle were found around Barquette). The MP44 only started appearing in notable numbers on the west front in October 1944, usually as part of the new "Sturmzug" concept that was implemented in the newly raised Volksgrenadier Divisions as well as some other new units like the Panzer Brigades. All weapons before that were mostly trial issues or prototypes. This also led to huge supply problems, since the ammunition needed for it was not yet widely available, making the relatively fast firing weapon useless after a few days of combat. To end the post, these are the only two photographs of MP44s in Normandy I know of: If anyone has more I would be very interested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Try playing with the equipment quality settings for various subunits: Excellent to Poor. In some cases, it will give them more or fewer automatics relative to riflemen. It definitely made a big difference in CMSF; I haven't explored the feature so much here. With my CM PC now restored I took a look. Equipment quality (Excellent, Poor) or experience level (Elite-Green) doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the loadouts and weapons of US Airborne squads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Try playing with the equipment quality settings for various subunits: Excellent to Poor. In some cases, it will give them more or fewer automatics relative to riflemen. It definitely made a big difference in CMSF; I haven't explored the feature so much here. Does this exist only in the scenario editor? I haven't noticed it in the QB editor. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Does this exist only in the scenario editor? I haven't noticed it in the QB editor. Michael I believe so. It's one of those differences between QB and editor that I cannot fathom. What would be bad about having variable quality of equipment in the QB selection screen? Or variable headcount levels/casualties? And why not show the points/rarity in the editor screens? While it won't always be useful, it's not going to get in the way, and it could help at least with starting out. Especially with the more unfamiliar bits of equipment (like Italian stuff ). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I believe so. It's one of those differences between QB and editor that I cannot fathom. What would be bad about having variable quality of equipment in the QB selection screen? Or variable headcount levels/casualties? Indeed. And variable ammo count while we are at it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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