Syrian Civil War A Turkish Intervention?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

I know Battlefront regarded Shockforce as a finished project. However, in the light of tee recent real world events on the Syria/Turkish border pershaps they might like to reconsider and add a Turkish expansion.

I suspect many of the basics for Turkish equipment is already there with the NATO expansion although some additional work on the Turkish TOE would be required. While you are doing that you could also open up the month and year menu to allow for battles with more variety in season and Syrian weather. I for one would be happy to pay the usual sort of price for a module expansion.

[John Kettler]

LUCASWILLEN05,

I doubt they will, but it IS an intriguing idea. Turkey has already produced a 10 km deep cordon sanitaire (from Syrian territory) using artillery fires to target every Syrian unit and position it finds, and multiple nations seem to be pushing for an official buffer zone. I read somewhere (don't recall the site), and my sensitive contacts have confirmed, that Turkey's real goal is to take the nearest third of Syria as a buffer zone, this in the context of allowing Israel to strike Iran using Turkish airspace.

That WAS the plan, but Turkey is really ticked off at Israel as a result of Israel's killing nine Turkish nationals (known Muslim extremists) in the commando attack on the Mavi Marmara, which was trying to break the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-josef-olmert/israel-and-turkey-its-tim_b_1904347.html

Some of the AFVs from CMSF appear to be in the ORBAT, but I have no idea what you'd do about the rest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_equipment_and_uniform_of_the_Turkish_Army

Regards,

John Kettler

[Erwin]

You'd think that Syria could easily defuse the situation by quickly offering proof that the "terrorists" are the ones sending mortar shells to Turkey, or simply apologizing profusely. As it is the situation is allowing NATO to announce it will "defend a fellow NATO member" etc.

Maybe it IS Syria's fault, but this sort of thing is how WW2 started (in Poland) with trumped up accusations of aggression vs the Germans etc.

Have no idea what the truth is, but it's an odd situation...

IIRC was it LLF who was thinking of adapting the amazing Ramadi map for a Syrian scenario? Someone else has already made a Muj mod that could be used for the rebels.

[LongLeftFlank]

SBurke and I were playtesting exactly such a map (Baba Amr), although it's been on hold for nearly 6 months, and my CM PC is presently dead.

I'd send it over to you, but the catch is that I was unable to come up with a coherent AI plan for either side to enable reasonable 1 player mode -- the AI is no damn good at sneak-and-peek guerrilla tactics or systematic block-clearing in a dense urban environment, so it's H2H only.

In JOKER THREE, the real battle Iraqi uncons behaved a lot more like CMSF AI troops, dashing recklessly through the streets in search of glory and martyrdom, so it worked. Also, the Marines had a lot fewer troops and firepower to use for the rescue mission than the Syrian Army 4th Armoured does in this planned assault. Those tactics would be futile and fatal for the FSA forces.

[Erwin]

Condolences re your CM PC. I know how hard that can be.

So you don't think the Syrian rebels can just wait in ambush?

I assumed it would be a bit like JOKER 3 - an element of 4th Armored is cut off and surrounded and has to fight its way out while a rescue attempt from the main force attempts to reach em. But the streets are blocked with rubble or somesuch, so inf has to go in without armor.

[Vanir Ausf B]

You'd think that Syria could easily defuse the situation by quickly offering proof that the "terrorists" are the ones sending mortar shells to Turkey, or simply apologizing profusely.

They did that last week.

If BFC were to do another CMSF module they would presumably have to delay one of their current projects. I don't see that happening but they've surprised me before.

[sburke]

Condolences re your CM PC. I know how hard that can be.

So you don't think the Syrian rebels can just wait in ambush?

I assumed it would be a bit like JOKER 3 - an element of 4th Armored is cut off and surrounded and has to fight its way out while a rescue attempt from the main force attempts to reach em. But the streets are blocked with rubble or somesuch, so inf has to go in without armor.

In Baba Amr I am the Syrians and am on the offensive having to sieze a couple objectives held by the rebels. It is a fairly heavy task force, but LLF already scared the crap outta my troops by landing an RPG round into a BMP which somehow survived. Where it stands now is my force clearing one of the main avenues block by block while I presume LLFs rebels are prowling my flank looking for an opening and possibly setting up an ambush ahead. It has been a very tense methodical push by my forces so far.

I agree with LLF trying to do this as a human vs AI would be hard. Trying to get the AI to adopt the tactics either of us is using is pretty much an impossibility.

LLF I may have some thoughts on this once your PC is back. If you could send me the map sans forces or the whole scenario and I will try to delete them without looking, I may have some map ideas to run past you. If that isn't possible I may create one and take screen shots to throw some ideas your way.

[Erwin]

Thanks for the update Vanir. I have been watching Al Jazeera and Mosaic (both really interesting and available on DirecTV here in the US) to get their version of news on the ME situation, but am behind in watching recorded shows.

[Erwin]

Oh, and for those of you who do have DirecTV, these programs (and a lot more) are on the LINK Channel.

[LongLeftFlank]

Guess what? I'm back up and running! The HP so-called "help site" says that if the power module shows overload (blinking light) and you unplug your motherboard and peripherals and the light goes solid, that means your power unit is fine but the motherboard is fried -- so sorry! you need a new one or even better, a new computer. $$$$

But once I googled around a bit, it appears there's a hack where you unplug everything, use a blow dryer on the power unit to warm it up, put the power back in and then (carefully) replug in your motherboard, it clears the overload and reboots. Sure enough, it worked!!!!!

Job hunt remains priority, but I'm going to get down to some long overdue CMing this weekend. I want to get that La Meauffe recon scenario published, and then maybe we can resume Baba Amr if you have time.

[LongLeftFlank]

In Baba Amr I am the Syrians and am on the offensive having to sieze a couple objectives held by the rebels. It is a fairly heavy task force, but LLF already scared the crap outta my troops by landing an RPG round into a BMP which somehow survived. Where it stands now is my force clearing one of the main avenues block by block while I presume LLFs rebels are prowling my flank looking for an opening and possibly setting up an ambush ahead. It has been a very tense methodical push by my forces so far.

I agree with LLF trying to do this as a human vs AI would be hard. Trying to get the AI to adopt the tactics either of us is using is pretty much an impossibility.

LLF I may have some thoughts on this once your PC is back. If you could send me the map sans forces or the whole scenario and I will try to delete them without looking, I may have some map ideas to run past you. If that isn't possible I may create one and take screen shots to throw some ideas your way.

Erwin, the only way I could make static ambushes work is to give the FSA rebels a whole pile more troops and RPGs than they really had (e.g. plant a static ambush on every streetcorner, almost), which could make a challenging game, sure, but it would be more Berlin 1945 than a representation of what's going on in Syria now.

Again, I build scenarios for my own reasons which aren't always exactly what gamers like most; in this case, it's to better understand why it is the Syrian army needs entire armoured battalions to enter urban areas defended by small and very poorly armed rebel groups.

SBurke and I are on that nasty little voyage of discovery right now -- his force is overwhelmingly stronger than mine, and he is being very smart and systematic with his infantry combing buildings for RPG ambushes and tanks blasting my snipers (no rules of engagement here). But he's still chewing his nails off wondering when he's going to miss something and leave flaming wrecks and charred corpses in the streets for UgaritNews to post triumphantly on YouTube. While for me, every RPG rocket counts, and any fighters forced into a stand-up fight are going to die, fast. Tactics which, as SB says, are impossible for the AI to replicate.

[Erwin]

Yeah... I know how meticulous you are after JOKER.

Glad your PC is working again. What an amazing fix!

I'll be out of town in a week or so till maybe TG or even December. I rarely take any computer with me that can play games on or I would never get any work done while traveling. So, I may post here, but no play till I get back. (Sadly, cold turkey is the only way for addicts.)