88 Fired From Carriage While Still Limbered Up!!!

[John Kettler]

According to this authoritative source, the 88 could be and was fired from its carriage while still attached to its prime mover.

http://books.google.com/books?id=dJZ_3tBJUv4C&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=g.b.+jarrett,+ordnance&source=bl&ots=tXyePFqxVS&sig=pM6Kt0k3fEetkLQ1URUKs7UfcJk&hl=en#v=onepage&q=g.b.%20jarrett%2C%20ordnance&f=false

See page 25, first full paragraph here in ARMY ORDNANCE: From Beach To Battlefield, by Lida Mayo. This is one of the official Army WW II history volumes.

Bet this would make meeting engagements easier for the Germans, also hasty defense!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

Of course it could, that's been known for ages. But there were limits to how that technique could be used. The complete rig had to be driven toward the prospective target, then the prime mover had to turn to one side to get out of the LOF. The gun could only be fired through a narrow arc centered on the longitudinal axis of the carriage, elsewise the recoil would have tipped it over. If it was needed to fire outside that arc, a certain amount of to-ing and fro-ing was required to reposition the gun.

Michael

[John Kettler]

Michael Emrys,

That's true, but right now, as far as I'm aware, the 88 can only be fired once off tow and deployed. Putting this in would give the Germans a combat capability they historically had but do not in the game.

Regards,

John Kettler

[c3k]

Um, really?? I mean, you really want this put in the game?

How many times were 88's in motion engaged?

[sburke]

Michael Emrys,

That's true, but right now, as far as I'm aware, the 88 can only be fired once off tow and deployed. Putting this in would give the Germans a combat capability they historically had but do not in the game.

Regards,

John Kettler

With the limitations Michael noted it was not a technique I ever recall them using in the West. I have heard anecdotal Eastern front usage but even then it smacks of desperation. The prime mover was a pretty damned valuable piece of equipment to be wasted in this situation especially if it is likely to be even more visible than the gun.

Just because something MIGHT have been able to be done doesn't necessarily mean it has to be done in game or BF would never get anything done. There has to be some amount of expectation that outlier behavior just isn't necessary in game especially if modelling it is going to eat up valuable time and effort.

[MikeyD]

Don't forget there's no suitable 88 prime movers, either for flak or pak. CMBN 88 43/41 pak at least has wheels but hooking the thing up to the back of an Opel Blitz just ain't gonna cut it. Maybe we'll see a prime mover in a later module or vehicle pak. I suspect this isn't going to be much of an issue until we see really big open maps, A map where a limbered gun can be brought into position to fire on targets with impunity from 2000m+ away.

[noob]

Just because something MIGHT have been able to be done doesn't necessarily mean it has to be done in game or BF would never get anything done.

I hope that's not true, if i don't get dog bombs in the Eastern Front game, i'm outta here !!!

[sburke]

I hope that's not true, if i don't get dog bombs in the Eastern Front game, i'm outta here !!!

No Pixelpooches were injured in the creation of this game.

[Michael Emrys]

With the limitations Michael noted it was not a technique I ever recall them using in the West. I have heard anecdotal Eastern front usage but even then it smacks of desperation.

As noted in the article John linked to, it was used occasionally in the desert as well, where conditions for the tactic would have been more ideal. I still have no idea though just how often it was done. It gets talked about a lot because of its sensational and novel nature, but that doesn't mean that it happened a lot.

Michael

[Andrew H.]

I think this was in one of the pre-ASL SL rule sets, too.

[Michael Emrys]

I think this was in one of the pre-ASL SL rule sets, too.

Might have made it into the amended rules for Tobruk too, back almost 40 years ago.

Michael

[Heinrich505]

Ahhh, Tobruk. More dice rolls than sesame seeds on a bun. Memories....

Heinrich505

[John Kettler]

Michael Emrys,

Forty years? I knew my sense of time was bad, but forty years! I not only played the game, but have the add-on components and well remember the idiocy that ensued before firing doctrine was imposed. And who can forget the tank duel "Best of the Best?"

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

Forty years? I knew my sense of time was bad, but forty years!

Okay, it was before 1976. Fire & Movement magazine appeared that year and their first issue carried an in-depth review of the game.

Michael