John Kettler vs. CMBN--The Learning Curve!

[Tarquelne]

New orders! Stand to! 18 Platoon

This'll be my first foray into the CW side of things, and already I find myself a bit flummoxed. I know my Regiment, I know my Battalion, but I haven't the foggiest as to what my Company is.

That confused me, too. I'd nearly lost the scenario when I finally noticed the "D Company" label on each unit (except maybe the HQ for some reason?)

The little read-out off to the side of the unit display says something like

18 Platoon

D Company

1 LOAM

Once I'd figured that out I found the scenario pretty easy.

[John Kettler]

Tarquelne,

Very appreciate this important tidbit. I barely know how to play the game; I've never played the CW, so the last thing I need is to be the long suffering PBI and not even know what unit I belong to.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

SPOILER ALERT!

SPOILER ALERT!

18 Platoon has been rendered completely combat ineffective. All went well--until it didn't.

My unit drew first blood 21 minutes in, wiping out the gate guards and whatever that HQ unit was. Excellent. Built up a nice base of fire and was pounding away on Jerry. Regrettably, the wheels fell off the trolley thereafter, causing the next bound to collapse in a welter of shredded sections.

Apparently, the blasted hedgerow can only be gone through in the gaps, said gaps discovered to be well covered! Worse was to come. HQ went left and tried to come in the open SW corner but blundered into the open and came under LMG fire in its wreck of a trip to what was supposed to be a shell crater refuge. A few fateful Schmeisser Brrrps! later, the HQ disintegrated, especially after, for reasons unknown, it went right across the deadly gap (well past its crater) at the front of the farm. One rifleman survived. Earlier, another section came to grief trying to get into position to the right of the gap. It found the Jerry MLR (Main Line of Resistance) via RBD (Recon By Death), with one effective remaining. The other section went through that same exposed gap, got hosed and broke. Completing this debacle was my idiot, though earlier superb, mortar team, which also managed to step first into the path of the LMG covering the open corner, then got plastered by a Schmeisser firing through the hedgerow. So thorough was 18 Platoon's ruin that I contemplated surrender but plumped for a cease fire instead. Major British Tactical Defeat. The LOD (Line Of Departure) wasn't taken in time, so this may well unhinge the whole attack.

Regards,

John Kettler, DOC (Dead Officer Commanding)

[Michael Emrys]

Well...as long as you are having fun...

<lopsided grin>

Michael

[John Kettler]

Michael Emrys,

Fortunately, I don't do this for a living! It was beautiful to maneuver my platoon, coordinate fires and all. Talking textbook. After getting the drop on the foe initially, it can fairly be said that pretty much nothing worked right thereafter. "Holy cut to pieces, Batman!" Truer words were never spoken.

Regards,

John Kettler

[womble]

Are you suggesting an in-flight mission abort?

Up to you, of course, John. Just supplying some context so you could evaluate your experience from a better informed position.

From what I've seen, there are some, by my standards, enormous forces to array early in the player's learning curve. As noted previously, I'm pretty sure one had a battalion. If not, it sure seemed like it.

Hmm. I'm not sure how you're divining what a player's learning curve should be composed of. There's no indication on any Scenario how difficult it's meant to be. The only Campaigns that indicate their position on the gradient are labelled training; attempt the others on your own recognisance (Courage and Fortitude is not idly named).

Cover arcs for everyone. Oh joy! More work!

Not much more work though. Double-click the top tier HQ (or HQs if you've got elements from multiple TOs) and that will select all their subordinate units. Give that unit a "self defense distance" circular cover arc, and every subordinate unit will have that same arc assigned. You may want to cancel or adjust the CA for some units, but at least you won't get any "loose cannon" giving away your positions. I'd recommend doing this after you've positioned your forces, because having blasted yellow circles obscuring your view of the terrain is not conducive to a happy setup

Didn't scenarios used to be in order of increasing difficulty? Or am I having AH Tobruk flashbacks?

I don't know, and it's completely irrelevant. In CMBN as it stands, it's alphabetical. v2 addresses this, but still there's no way to sort by difficulty because there's no way for a scenario designer to assign a difficulty rating, and if there were, it would be entirely subjective.

[JonS]

18 Platoon has been rendered completely combat ineffective. All went well--until it didn't.

I suggest trying that one again. 18 Platoon is small enough, and short enough, that you should be able to get through two or three playings in a reasonable space of time. Doing it over will give you a chance to try different approaches (split squads, more suppression before movement, speculative fire, etc) and get a reasonable grip on what works and what doesn't.

[Badger73]

John, before you get too deep into this one, you should know that the alphabetical ordering of Scenarios in the menu presents a very tricky scenario as the "first one to play". Just so you know.

Playing scenario's alphabetically didn't work for me. I felt lost in where I was and what I was trying to do. I decided to approach the game in a more historical sequence and avoid the very big battles as a newbie. I found the CM BfN Base Game mod "CMBN Scenario Organisor v0.22" very useful. (See URL = http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=1542).

I like that you can make it order the list of battles in date/time sequence, list the forces involved, and show battle size as tiny, medium, large, and huge. At this point, I'm playing American battles only (really love using the unit patch uniform mods and CW portraits mod) in historical sequence. This lets me pretend my play is improving with lessons learned as happened to the actual combat units with the passing of time and their gaining of experience. It also lets me skip big battles; I really need to learn how to command effectively as a lieutenant before I try so as a lieutenant colonel . . . Also want to master applying US doctrine within the game for myself before attempting Common Wealth battles.

This mod is a java app. Runs fine for me in Windows; expect it would work on a Mac as well. I highly recommend Mr. Wellhoefer's mod as a very useful tool for players new to the game.

[DavidFields]

I am very much enjoying this thread, and sort of think it could be stickied as "Experienced Wargamer adjusts to CM2". It is not exactly a "beginners" thread--if AH Tobruk [odd one that--boards with mostly flat terrain, it was like playing AH Jutland, but with tanks] is being mentioned.

This thead gives some of the first 20+ (to use an arbitrary number) "I thought it was just me", and "Something does not feel right, but maybe I just don't understand" issues which hit someone who comes into this game engine.

For my part, I have been impressed with how quickly attacking infantry can be anhilated. Any infantry move which would take x number of moves in CM1, I count of taking 2x in the more realistic CM2. (Though, of course, scenario/campaign designers will than make situations where one is forced to move rapidly).

[John Kettler]

Rankorian,

I'm a highly experienced wargamer, but am all but totally new to CMx2. Yesterday showed me just how bad hedgerow fighting could be. Knowing what I know now about being able to move only through the gaps, I'd completely change that fatal bound which got 18 Platoon shredded in about two minutes. Schmeisser fire at close range is simply devastating, especially to men exposed while moving. Also, it would appear I underestimated how long it takes to get effective suppression when the enemy has a hedgerow as cover, but then there's the bloody schedule to consider.

womble,

I thought the scenarios were in increasing order of difficulty and larger formation size. Now, I know better. Thanks for the mass Cover Arc tip!

JonS,

I shall essay this again, and I really don't know much about the enemy, having called for a Cease Fire, which provides no battlefield tour. HQ simply gets back a shredded platoon and a handful of garbled, distorted survivor accounts, what with the command structure effectively wiped out.

Badger73,

A most useful suggestion. Learning to crawl before walking is there for a reason. To go from a platoon on the firing range to herding a battalion strikes me as going more than a bit too far.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Andrew H.]

Rankorian,

I'm a highly experienced wargamer, but am all but totally new to CMx2. Yesterday showed me just how bad hedgerow fighting could be. Knowing what I know now about being able to move only through the gaps, I'd completely change that fatal bound which got 18 Platoon shredded in about two minutes. Schmeisser fire at close range is simply devastating, especially to men exposed while moving. Also, it would appear I underestimated how long it takes to get effective suppression when the enemy has a hedgerow as cover, but then there's the bloody schedule to consider.

Regards,

John Kettler

This is one of my favorite scenarios. Since you're new to CMBN, you might want to familiarize yourself with p. 40 of the (CMBN) manual, since I think you may not be making full use of your assets.

[John Kettler]

Andrew H.,

If you're referring to the Blast command, it doesn't do me much good, since I have neither paras nor combat engineers. That said, I'm definitely going to do a fundamental rethink on how I approach this matter. Clearly, the last one didn't work!

Regards,

John Kettler

[JonS]

Read the briefing properly, and look at your troops more closely.

Edit: not that that approach is either necessary or sufficient. It's simply another way to tackle this particular battle.

[John Kettler]

!8 Platoon will have to wait, for I've gone to a tiny scenario called A New Dawn. My first outing as the Germans.

SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!

With my forward PanzerGrenadier squads already broken into teams, I've split one off to the right to generate a crossfire and keep on eye on things. A hulldown Stuart was taken under MG and rifle fire to button it, and I think it had brief LOS to my heavily loaded forward Panzerschreck team, seeing as how that Stuart's now a funeral pyre. If that's not the explanation, I don't know what is. Unfortunately, I wasn't thorough when I ran the replay, thus missed the Stuart's demise. Things are going very well, with the platoon advancing two up, one back, with HQ and the 234/1 in trail, together with the HMG-42. The rightmost squad has short cover arcs, too.

Regards,

John Kettler

[mjkerner]

!8 Platoon will have to wait, for I've gone to a tiny scenario called A New Dawn. My first outing as the Germans.

SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!

If that's not the explanation, I don't know what is. Unfortunately, I wasn't thorough when I ran the replay, thus missed the Stuart's demise.

Regards,

John Kettler

Save Game is your friend, John.

[John Kettler]

mjkerner,

I did that, but the horse was already not just out of the barn, but well down the road. The way you quoted my post (sans ellipsis) confused me no end.

Regards,

John Kettler

[womble]

mjkerner,

I did that, but the horse was already not just out of the barn, but well down the road. The way you quoted my post (sans ellipsis) confused me no end.

Regards,

John Kettler

What he means is that if you save your games on a turn-by-turn basis, when you notice, say during an order phase, that there's an unexpected smoking wreck, you can save your current order phase progress and reload to the replay of last turn, to watch what happened, and be sure that it was the Shreck, and not some other even more surprising AT asset that did the deed.

[mjkerner]

Thanks, Womble. ;-)

[John Kettler]

womble,

I understood what he said, and have adapted my play accordingly.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Two more minutes of combat have elapsed, with a short, sharp clash in the first minute with what I think is a scout team (two men observed popping up, dashing briefly and hitting the deck again), plus several squads of infantry and an HQ of some sort in the treeline behind the briskly burning Stuart. The succeeding minute consisted of minimal fire from either side, targets being scarce. Advance continues in good order, and I'm consolidating my rearmost squad that has been providing crossfires.

HMG-42 has been brought up to the last real cover before the hedgerow ends, and the 234/1 (whose rear driver is clearly visible through his driver's port) has continued part way down the bocage surrounded road, via a sanitized route, infantry having been through it already.

I anticipate the next several moves are likely to be tricky and expensive, with ground dominated from the second floor of the manor, no bocage on my right, but a bit of a defilade formed by a rise in the ground and considerable enemy forces to my right. I'd say the lack of intel is alarming, as is the schedule. I can feel the pressure as time to complete the mission seems to be rushing away.

Regards,

John Kettler

[womble]

I'd say the lack of intel is alarming...

Then stop and spend some time in recon, either by fire, or via an alternate route.

...as is the schedule. I can feel the pressure as time to complete the mission seems to be rushing away.

Don't let that clock get to you. Especially if you've got a "friendly casualties < " victory condition.

[John Kettler]

womble,

Am not rushing headlong into anything, which is why I'm using cover arcs, carefully positioning support assets and making good use of cover. The reality, though, is that the available approaches are extremely constrained, therefore, predictable. And I learned the hard way, in 18 Platoon, that the consequences of trying to move through bocage can be disastrous.

Am expecting things to get tough in a hurry, and there simply isn't much time for any kind of recon, save route recon for the AC and HMG-42. Shall have to think carefully about the pros and cons of attempting to bounce the objective, rather than shooting my way in (recon by fire and heavy suppressive fires) and abandoning surprise altogether.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

womble,

I tried to be careful, but I guess I wasn't careful enough!

I was moving up my HMG-42 team to cover the next stretch of road and the adjacent flanking pasture to the right, when my men got unduly creative and sustained a casualty in the process. You see, they found a gap in the hedgerow and proceeded to move through it, thence down the enemy's side of it. Recon by Fire may've helped limit the damage of this unexpected development, but I've lost a rifleman; the HMG-24 team is face down, Pinned and Rattled. Looks like the Platoon HQ is going to be busy sorting that out next turn.

I moved the 234/1 down near the same place as the HMG-42 was supposed to go and intend to kill whatever shows itself. All units except the ones with longer cover arcs up have short ones. Also, I consolidated my flanking unit and split the squad which conducted Recon by Fire, so as not to compromise the command section. I now have 22 minutes left to take the objective.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

womble,

The battle is now officially joined! It appears my advancing column has been hit in the flank by advance elements of an American attack, with the furthest advance midway across the field to my right. Am taking fire from forward units in the field, from the treeline behind the still cooking off Stuart and from the bocage to its right, as viewed from my side. My MG-42s are doing quite the hedge shredding job, but I'm now under fire from a 60mm mortar team, and one of the ranging rounds appears to have dropped near my hapless HMG-42 team. Not good. What is good is that I reconsidered, moved my flanking unit down the lane to the gate, and am getting ready to take the Americans to the right of the tank from the flank. This should put the fat in the fire. Really need to deal with that mortar, for I'm in confined terrain on that road, and that mortar could do fearsome execution there. Also, I think I'm right to be concerned about my 234/1.

Seizing the Orchard has now become a very exciting and fraught process, what with fire from the flank (thank goodness for the bocage!) and from the chateau/manor house upper level. Not at all sure how I'm going to handle this. I certainly need to extract maximum advantage from my flankers.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

womble,

I fear the wheels are now coming off the trolley! There are definitely American troops in the chateau, as one of my squads learned by getting shot in the face. I'm somewhat relieved to report that what I thought was bazooka fire against my 234/1 in fact came from AT rifle grenades. The 234/1 did take a hit in the wheels, but that was rifle/MG fire of some sort. The grenade launching malefactors have been identified and will be dealt with.

My flankers have come to grief, with half a squad clobbered by a now disposed of OP/LP, which caught the men coming over/through the gate. Unhinged my game plans there, for sure.

Where I'm really hurting is with my HMG-42, now down to just the gunner, whom the PL managed to rally and may actually come into action before being marked down himself.

Am not at all sure I'm going to be able to accomplish this within mission constraints.

Regards,

John Kettler

Regards