Vanir Ausf B Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I noticed one of my heavy machine guns was only firing rifles, even though it had an area fire order. The machine gun was deployed and the team had been sitting in foxholes for some time, firing the machine gun with no problem. I made sure to watch it the next turn and saw that the gunner and his foxhole buddy (lower left in the pic) were endlessly crawling around the foxhole. They keep doing this turn after turn after turn. Switching targets didn't help. Face command didn't help. I finally had to order the team to move an action spot and then move back. Ignore for a moment the question of why the 2 guys near the upper right foxhole decided they were safer outside the foxhole than in it. That's a different problem. I think :confused: You can see it in motion here: Savegame file. Just hit go. I don't know if Charles can do anything with it, but there it is. http://www.2shared.com/file/um3gjEdI/Bois_de_Baugin_001.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 foxholes tend to be one of those points where all the variables of action spots, LOS, unit positioning etc all hit the intersection at once. That I know that and understand some of the restrictions doesn't help sometimes. Like having a squad that now consists of 4 guys, but the 4 guys are different teams in the squad so they now still need two foxhole units to provide cover. I get why that is, but it is still a pain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Yeah; I've seen stuff like this a couple of times. There are definitely still some rough edges wrt foxholes and deployment. Doesn't happen to me very often, but it does happen. Good catch with the save game file; hopefully it will help BFC chase down and eliminate one rough edge. My impression is the foxhole deployment is one of those aspects of the game that is never going to be perfect, but hopefully it will continue to improve through future patches as players catch and report uncommon bugs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I get mortars that do this too, it seems to be if they have dubious LOS to the target. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 any craters in the AS (even smallest one, maybe invisibly below FH geometry)? or in neighboring AS? I´ve oftenly noticed conflicting craters with FHs in same AS, with soldiers mostly prefering craters then. Sometimes craters "spill over" from neighboring AS, causing same problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 any craters in the AS (even smallest one, maybe invisibly below FH geometry)? or in neighboring AS? The nearest crater I can see is 4 action spots away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Ok. Just remember I had that infinite loop thing happening with a HMG42, placed in FH beside a road (neighboring AS) and after "Face" along the road, the MG gunner could not decide what FH to take forever. I suspected the nearby shallow "road ditch" beeing the cause for eternal indecision, but who knows... I keep suspecting small ground mesh alterations conflicting with path (or cover?) finding algorithms into FHs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 I think it started after I ordered the MG crew to switch targets. I can't be sure because they hadn't been firing for a few turns before I noticed. Prior to that they had been area firing at a different spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Think I count 8 dudes in your FH AS. 6 is from your 1st section HMG. Is the others corpses? I saw during my own tests, that corpses do sometimes keep FHs occupied, so that these FHs can´t be properly used by a different unit. Maybe these are marked "graves" and thus are no go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 LOL no marked graves. The other 2 guys are a forward observer team, very much alive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 The other 2 guys are a forward observer team, very much alive. Well then, for starters I'd say you need to move the FO team somewhere else. The MG is bound to draw hostile fire and your observers don't need that. I try to make it a point to keep mine well away from any shooters if possible. Stealth and concealment are their watchwords. If I need to move them, a smokescreen comes in mighty handy. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 I'll keep that in mind, Michael. But I'm actually just reporting a bug, not looking for tactical advice 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM1fan Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I noticed one of my heavy machine guns was only firing rifles, even though it had an area fire order. The machine gun was deployed and the team had been sitting in foxholes for some time, firing the machine gun with no problem. I made sure to watch it the next turn and saw that the gunner and his foxhole buddy (lower left in the pic) were endlessly crawling around the foxhole. They keep doing this turn after turn after turn. Switching targets didn't help. Face command didn't help. I finally had to order the team to move an action spot and then move back. Ignore for a moment the question of why the 2 guys near the upper right foxhole decided they were safer outside the foxhole than in it. That's a different problem. I think :confused: You can see it in motion here: Savegame file. Just hit go. I don't know if Charles can do anything with it, but there it is. http://www.2shared.com/file/um3gjEdI/Bois_de_Baugin_001.html The video you see -- of guys crawling around foxholes, soldiers using binoculars to look at something five yards away, and men curled up in the fetal position -- are standard CM:BN video used whenever CM:BN decides a soldier is moving, spotting, or cowering. Sometimes that video matches what you'd expect the action to look like. Sometimes the video is hilariously wrong. The man you see outside the foxhole may only appear outside the foxhole because that's how the video shows him. The game engine may still be giving the man the foxhole's protection. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 ...The man you see outside the foxhole may only appear outside the foxhole because that's how the video shows him. The game engine may still be giving the man the foxhole's protection. We have speculated thusly across several threads, but has BFC actually ever come out and confirmed that there is "abstracted cover" in this sort of case ? Would be nice to know for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 We have speculated thusly across several threads, but has BFC actually ever come out and confirmed that there is "abstracted cover" in this sort of case ? Would be nice to know for sure. Yupp. And on top of that, I think the foxholes have both abstracted cover and 3D cover, so if the latter is missing when they are gaming around that wouldn't be good either, even if abstracted cover still works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 The video you see -- of guys crawling around foxholes, soldiers using binoculars to look at something five yards away, and men curled up in the fetal position -- are standard CM:BN video used whenever CM:BN decides a soldier is moving, spotting, or cowering. Sometimes that video matches what you'd expect the action to look like. Sometimes the video is hilariously wrong. The man you see outside the foxhole may only appear outside the foxhole because that's how the video shows him. The game engine may still be giving the man the foxhole's protection. "May"? As Baneman pointed out, there is no reason I am aware of to assume that men outside of but next to foxholes are treated the same as men inside foxholes. The problem with the men crawling around isn't that they are crawling around. The problem is that they never stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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