womble Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I have in my head that one of the patches so far issued addressed the problem of "banzai crew charges" where the crews of AI vehicles which had "attack" orders in the Plan would continue to prosecute those orders even once their mount was killed, leading to headlong charges of pistoleers towards the enemy. I'm running 1.10 and they're still sometimes doing it. And being deadshot unbreakable supersoldiers to boot. I have seen them scatter and flee too, but single survivors being pinned for minutes, then popping up with a grease gun to nail 3 or 4 Landser before being gunned down seems to happen with depressing regularity. Is this just the AI getting lucky on its morale rolls, or is it still a general issue with offensive AI plans? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I have in my head that one of the patches so far issued addressed the problem of "banzai crew charges" where the crews of AI vehicles which had "attack" orders in the Plan would continue to prosecute those orders even once their mount was killed, leading to headlong charges of pistoleers towards the enemy. I'm running 1.10 and they're still sometimes doing it. And being deadshot unbreakable supersoldiers to boot. I have seen them scatter and flee too, but single survivors being pinned for minutes, then popping up with a grease gun to nail 3 or 4 Landser before being gunned down seems to happen with depressing regularity. Is this just the AI getting lucky on its morale rolls, or is it still a general issue with offensive AI plans? I´m currently working on a scenario and had single tanks subordinated to an Inf Plt, which are all in the same AI group and it appears the crews generally adapt to the infantry behavior (plan), when not fleeing/broken. Now I´m using seperate AI groups, but yet have to make some more tests, to see if tank crews behave differently once bailed. Unfortunately one can´t subordinate Inf. formations (specialist teams excl.) to tank HQs, to see if it makes any difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Yeah the uber tank crews still exist. I actually ended up using a regular tank crew chap with a sten gun because he was more adept at the task than regular infantry! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I've witnessed this phenomenon once for sure, maybe twice, in all my games. When it does occur it certainly rivets one's attention. Usually my crews go hightailing towards the rear or remain whimpering on the ground. Should tankers *never* emerge from their rides in an retributive mood? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I've witnessed this phenomenon once for sure, maybe twice, in all my games. When it does occur it certainly rivets one's attention. Usually my crews go hightailing towards the rear or remain whimpering on the ground. Should tankers *never* emerge from their rides in an retributive mood? Nail them hard and sink another round in as they exit the tank, that'll eliminate the problem. @rockinharry will be curious what you find as it certainly seems that part of the issue is simply that they are AI units, they are trying to continue to execute their orders. That they don't have a tank anymore isn't something they understand the stupid little pixeltruppen. Tying them into some other group's overall state seems to be an interesting possibility. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Nail them hard and sink another round in as they exit the tank, that'll eliminate the problem. Easier said than done when: a) you're being bum rushed by handfuls of targets and you can't spend the time to mop up inconsequential crunchies; the smoke and sight obstruction of wrecks from previous waves of AI gung-ho-ness are providing excellent cover for the bailed crews; c) your Panther is mostly blind because it's sustained numerous hits from 57mm, 75mm and the occasional 76mm over the course of 5 battles. @rockinharry will be curious what you find as it certainly seems that part of the issue is simply that they are AI units, they are trying to continue to execute their orders. That they don't have a tank anymore isn't something they understand the stupid little pixeltruppen. Tying them into some other group's overall state seems to be an interesting possibility. Yes, it's always been a problem with Edit: I mean "confined to" AI units with offensive orders, I just thought they'd used a patch to put a check in to stop Crew type units behaving like they were still in a 30-ton armoured HE-chucker when wearing just battledress and carrying small arms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I didn't see any mention of this being fixed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Not fixed, never did hear the results from the testing that was going to go into it either. But in general, we have enough test that shows how pistols are over modelled in their ability. So take a crew which might have 4 of them plus a sub machine gun and you have one nasty unit. I hate it, but I am also the type of player that will use gamey tactics if the game gives them to me. I am in a battle right now where I started with 45 tanks or so. Needless to say, I now have a few crews running around the battle field. A few of them I have lead assaults with, all I am going to say is they have yet lost to any unit, their only weakness, getting ammo for them. This is one fix that you think they could get too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Not fixed... Ah, just my imagination then. And having been able to murdicate crews of dead tanks with attack orders before they got the chance to go "hero" in previous games, I guess. But in general, we have enough test that shows how pistols are over modelled in their ability. So take a crew which might have 4 of them plus a sub machine gun and you have one nasty unit....I started with 45 tanks or so...a few crews...have lead assaults...only weakness, getting ammo for them. If you're going that route, sounds like it's worth saving some from vehicles to load 'em up before using them... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 As far as I am aware it was not 'fixed' as such. I think their morale status was tweaked BUT if playing longer games these guys have lot's of time to recover. I'm playing one scenario where there are lot's of Allied tanks - now lot's of dead ones. It's 2.5 hours long and I am now at the stage where my pistol wielding enemies are ambushing and taking out my panzergrenadiers in their SPW. It's fun to watch but not so fun to see your supporting infantry, who are meant to be mopping up, being taken down. I believe BFC are aware - there are several issues associated with this one. One is the accuracy of pistols (their ability to shoot is tied to their experience so crack tank crew also becomes crack pistol team). Their morale status also appears to improve over time hence they regain their morale and if AI controlled or player controlled are 'back in the game' and become light crack assault troops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ferrous Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Maybe one possible simple solution would be to make all bailed crews at the very least lightly wounded. At least that would slow them down to zombie speed. Overall though, I really think there needs to be a change of status flag of some sort; instead of tanker crew they become very inexperienced infantry and take a morale drop too. They should also be dropped from any AI group orders. To be honest in the battles I've played I've hardly experienced these uber tank crews. Maybe that's because I hit 'em hard and keep hitting them till they give up or run away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Unfortunately I've run into this time and time again. It really is frustrating. In my last game which is part of the CW campaign it took a British tank 5 HE blasts and BESA rounds to stop the remnants of an enemy crew from advancing to a victory location. They were the only troops doing so - and they had advanced all the way from the rear of the map to where this VL was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ferrous Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Phil Yes, that's just silly. If it happens at all it should be a rare event, e.g. tank destroyed on or very near its objective and the crew stays on the spot to defend it (if possible) till infantry arrive. I wouldn't mind heroics while they're still IN the tank, and in my opinion these events are under-modelled, i.e. where a crew or even just some of the crew refuse to bail and keep moving and or firing even though the tank is on fire or shot to pieces. There were certainly instances when tanks with all weapons systems destroyed kept going and simply ran over anti-tank guns and trenches. Lets face it, if a burning tank arrives in your gun pit, you leave your gun behind since in all liklihood the thing will go sky high in a couple of minutes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.