~Viajero Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ok, my [insert your favourite 4 men crew AFV type here] crew has been "reduced" to 2 men due to [insert your favourite type of "unexpected" incident here] and although it is not in shock or panic, not even rattled, it wont bloody fire anymore! Let´s see, Driver present? Check. Gunner present? Check. - Player: Fire! - AFV gunner: No. - (All targeting options are greyed out, non selectable) - - Player: Fire I say! - AFV gunner: nopes. - Player: Come on gunner! you saw [insert your favourite Ammo Loader dude name here] loading the bloody gun thousands of times before, he is dead now but surely you can bloody move an inch over there, pick up an HE round, load it and then bloody fire it! I dont mind if it takes you twice as long to shoot it, just do it please!? No? - AFV gunner: Does not compute. Nopes. I was paid to aim the gun and press the fire button, not to load rounds. Loading rounds will increase my daily work hours limit plus I would need detailed instructions and a pay rise. ... AFV gets blown up to pieces by nearby enemy squad after 3 turns of seating there arguing with Player. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ok, my [insert your favourite 4 men crew AFV type here] crew has been "reduced" to 2 men due to [insert your favourite type of "unexpected" incident here] and although it is not in shock or panic, not even rattled, it wont bloody fire anymore! Let´s see, Driver present? Check. Gunner present check? Check. - Player: Fire! - AFV crew: No. - Player: Fire I say! - AFV crew: nopes. - Player: Come on Gunner! you saw [insert your favourite Ammo Loader dude name here] loading the bloody gun thousands of times before, he is dead now but surely you can bloody move an inch over there, pick up an HE round, load it and then bloody fire it! No? - AFV crew: nopes. ... AFV gets blown up to pieces by nearby enemy squad after 3 turns of seating there arguing with Player. Union rules, it clearly states in paragraph 4 of the amended contact for 4 man vehicle types. "In the event the loader gets it" Loader rep - I object to that phrasing - how about the loader is temporairily unable to perform his roles? Gunner rep - "But what if it isn't temporary, he isn't likely to suddenly get back to work with his bleedin head blown off now is he" Loader rep- "yes yes but we can't assume in all cases his head would be blown off now could we?" Gunner rep- "quite right, okay then how about we leave it that the loader rep is simply unable to perform" Loader rep - "No no, absolutley not, that seems like a recipe for creating a redundancy in position!" Driver rep- "Aww just get on with it or my boys are just gonna back the heck out of there!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Viajero Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I know, I know, fun stuff. But seriously, is that the way it is suposed to happen most everytime? Or is this an improvement opportunity (minor as it may be) in the game? I mean, I am trying to put myself in the situation of the 2 remaining crew members... as long as they have not panicked (not even rattled) and are not broken, and have otherwise decided to remain in battle then why wouldnt they load the gun and shoot? I do not mind it may take twice as long to shoot (reduce the rate of fire accordingly) or that the spotting, accuracy are also reduced etc. But shoot damn it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Teacher Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 But they arnt real people...... Hang on.... Were they American, if so....definatly union issue. Were they British, if so....was it around 3pm when this took place.... Afternoon Tea. Were they Canadian, if so....they may have been upset about being shot at and decided to not play anymore. Were they Polish, if so.... they may have sold the ammo to a cousin who was bring the car around to take it away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 seriously check for system damage, is the weapons system even available? I have seen that where everything at first looks okay and then you see weapons systems are out so now it is just a big hunk of moving metal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 big hunk of moving metal SO if they could not even drive it, and they could not fire, would their morale be somewhat shaken at least?!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Viajero Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 seriously check for system damage, is the weapons system even available? I have seen that where everything at first looks okay and then you see weapons systems are out so now it is just a big hunk of moving metal. Will check tonight, you are right of course, that is a possibility. Guess I have not checked yet because as far as I know my AFV has not been hit by any bigish caliber gun or HE yet. My crew was shot down by either snipers and/or light infantry weapons, so the possibility the gun system could had been dammaged that way had not occurred to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 As a Pole, I deeply resent Teacher's aspersions re the Poles as thieves... The Russians, maybe... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 This is something that I've been looking at. Do you have a savegame? (Or just a screenshot?) Otherwise, while waiting, what was the vehicle type, and what crewmembers are left? (How long have they refused to fire?) The more details you present, the better. (A screenshot showing the damage window, the crew positions, and the green "what are my men doing" UI in the bottom left of the game screen, would be most beneficial.) Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Johnston Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 My tank crews are never lazy. Why, every battle they make a point of leaving their vehicles and running right back to the start line! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Viajero Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 This is something that I've been looking at. Do you have a savegame? (Or just a screenshot?) Otherwise, while waiting, what was the vehicle type, and what crewmembers are left? (How long have they refused to fire?) The more details you present, the better. (A screenshot showing the damage window, the crew positions, and the green "what are my men doing" UI in the bottom left of the game screen, would be most beneficial.) Thanks, Ken Here a screenshot. My current opponent may be delighted to read all this but hey! Ammie M8 HMC self propelled arty. As you can see the main gun is effetcively greyed out although it shows as green and intact apparently (all the buttons in the targeting menu tab are greyed out except "target smoke" and "face". I can not give any firing orders, and it has been like this at least for 3 or 4 turns that I know of, maybe more. 2 crew members left, the Driver and the Gunner, both spotting. I can see the gunner one knee down at the gun sights, but I cant see the driver. Save game: http://www.mediafire.com/?9q0anf7my99knst 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave85 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 SO if they could not even drive it, and they could not fire, would their morale be somewhat shaken at least?!! You not seen battle of the bulge? Those guys get the turret blown off their sherman and they just cruise around with the TC hip firing the 30. cal, morale still high... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have seen something a bit similar except in my case the drive would not drive the tank even though the engine was fine and there was a crew member assigned to drive. The tank took two casualties and I forget if they bailed and I got them to remount or not but in the end I had a gunner, driver and commander and the tank could fire fine but would not move. In my case I could place movement way points but the driver never tried to follow the orders. It stayed that way for the rest of the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chainsaw Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 My tank crews are never lazy. Why, every battle they make a point of leaving their vehicles and running right back to the start line! Thanks for the laugh of the day! Sadly its true somtimes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Teacher Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I never said the Poles were thieves.....they were smart to sell the ammo when the crew dropped right down, profit before over work. A bigger paycheck than they would have gotten being killed, smart to sell and then live....LIVE.....LIVE !!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Viajero Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hey c3k, Wondering if you still looking at this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Yeah. More savegames would be nice. I'm of the mind that certain positions should get filled when that crewmember gets hit. Of course, moving 200 lbs of meat in a tank is hard. (Okay, some may be WWII Brits: 10 stone of meat. Scrappy little lads.) Getting him OUT of his position may be very hard. Getting another guy INTO the position may be hard. Especially the front. It's been YEARS since I poked inside a Sherman. The layout of certain tanks may prevent certain crewmen from being replaced. This is something that has popped up on my radar. Examples of crews not swapping, or being able to swap, would be good to have. Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Viajero Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Ok, will link more save games if I do encounter the issue again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yeah. More savegames would be nice. I'm of the mind that certain positions should get filled when that crewmember gets hit. Of course, moving 200 lbs of meat in a tank is hard. (Okay, some may be WWII Brits: 10 stone of meat. Scrappy little lads.) Getting him OUT of his position may be very hard. Getting another guy INTO the position may be hard. Especially the front. It's been YEARS since I poked inside a Sherman. The layout of certain tanks may prevent certain crewmen from being replaced. This is something that has popped up on my radar. Examples of crews not swapping, or being able to swap, would be good to have. Thanks, Ken Another factor is whether the tank had dual driving controls. A few tanks, like the Stuart, did -- the Asst. Driver/Bow Gunner has a full set of driving controls in the Stuart, so he can take over driving from the Driver without moving from his position. IIRC, most tanks didn't have this feature, though -- AFAIK, none of the Sherman models did. Setting aside for a moment the question of whether crew members would actually be mentally inclined to move the bloody body of a fellow tanker out of the way and keep fighting the tank, in regards to the Sherman specifically my own impression from clambering around inside a Sherman hulk or two is that switching positions inside the tank is certainly possible, but would definitely require some squeezing. It seems to me that swapping some positions would be easier than others -- for example, my impression is that it would be relatively easy to move around within the turret and take over each others' jobs, even with a WIA/KIA crew member in the way. I would think that the casualty would usually fall to the floor of the turret basket (or could be pushed/lowered down), getting him mostly out of the way. But I think getting a new crew member into the driver's position would definitely take time, especially if the driver's dead/incapacitated body were in the way. The driver's position is pretty snug and the transmission sits right between the driver and the asst. driver. This means the asst. driver would have to squeeze himself over the hump of the transmission in order to get into the driver's seat. Probably possible, but would definitely require some contortions, even more so if you didn't want to get outside the tank and pull the body of the poor WIA/KIA driver out of the way first (in which case you might as well just enter through the driver's hatch after removing the body). Also, IIRC it is possible to get between turret basket and the forward crew compartment internally in a Sherman, but it's definitely not easy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.