Shot Shatter

[xian]

I remember seeing Hit Text in CMx1 occasionally refer to 'Shot Shatter' when an AP round breaks up on impact with armour. Does that happen in CMBN?

[Statisoris]

I've never ever seen the "Shot shatter" hit text after many hours of play but it may be modeled under the hood. It's really rare that we get confirmation on something like this though, for whatever reason.

[Vanir Ausf B]

There are also no weak point penetrations in CMBN.

[RockinHarry]

There are also no weak point penetrations in CMBN.

Think "weak point" penetrations in CM1 were rather abstracted, while with the more accurate hit & damage calculations in CMBN, "weak" spots (detailed part of a models armor geometry) could be hit & penetrated in a realistic way. No abstraction (dice roll), no feedback.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Yeah. Except you can you can shoot a Sherman 76 at a Panther tank all day in CMBN and it will never penetrate the upper hull, despite the hull machine gun port located there.

[RockinHarry]

Yeah. Except you can you can shoot a Sherman 76 at a Panther tank all day in CMBN and it will never penetrate the upper hull, despite the hull machine gun port located there.

Hm...maybe part of that "aim at center mass" thingy mentioned elsewere?? :confused: So then we are not able to deflect a shot (from a Panther D/A/G gun mantlet) into the hull roof, another weak spot? That´s no good news.

[Rokko]

Of course it happens, I have seen it myself.

I also saw a stray 57mm round knocking out a Panther's top armor due to lucky trajectory.

I also saw 57mm frontal penetrations on a Panther's turret front (no idea how, but didn't cause damage).

What I wonder, do armor plates get weaker somehow after several hits? I tried a Churchill VII with its awesome frontal armor (superstructure I think it was) and a Panther couldn't penetrate it from 800m, but after 5 hits or so penetration and knock out was achieved. Or was that actually a weak spot penetration?

[Michael Emrys]

What I wonder, do armor plates get weaker somehow after several hits?

Yes, although I think it usually has to be by a series of rounds that could almost achieve penetration anyway. Whether or not BFC models that I don't know.

Michael

[Vanir Ausf B]

Let me clarify. Yes, the shot trap on the Panther does work. In 1.00 it worked very rarely, but that was supposedly fixed in 1.01. If someone has seen a weak point penetration of some sort on the Panther upper hull that is good news, but I have bounced literally hundreds of 75mm and 76mm rounds off of Panther hulls in testing without seeing a penetration. That was in 1.00 mind you.

[MengJiaoRedux]

Yeah. Except you can you can shoot a Sherman 76 at a Panther tank all day in CMBN and it will never penetrate the upper hull, despite the hull machine gun port located there.

I tried replicating that (in reality only moderately rare) event. I thought I got reasonable results with a 3-inch US AT gun versus Panthers, but I don't recall the details. They could knock out Panthers from in front though both in the game and in reality.

[Pak40]

I had an incident the other day while playing as the Brits. I had a two man sapper section behind a small bocage and one of my tanks was directly behind them. Some unseen AT gun shot and hit the tank, the AP round ricochet off directly on the ground near the two sappers killing one and incapacitating the other. Lesson learned, don't put your men near your tanks.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I tried replicating that (in reality only moderately rare) event. I thought I got reasonable results with a 3-inch US AT gun versus Panthers, but I don't recall the details. They could knock out Panthers from in front though both in the game and in reality.

If by through the front you mean the front turret, yes. IRL it could penetrate out to about 200m, although I have seen penetrations in the game out further than that. But the US 76mm could not penetrate the Panther upper hull at any range -- outside of the aforementioned weak point -- unless using HVAP ammunition, and even then penetration depended on armor quality (at the Isigny tests 76mm HVAP failed to penetrate good quality Panther glacis plate at 200m).

I probably should re-test this stuff at some point.

[rocketman]

I had an incident the other day while playing as the Brits. I had a two man sapper section behind a small bocage and one of my tanks was directly behind them. Some unseen AT gun shot and hit the tank, the AP round ricochet off directly on the ground near the two sappers killing one and incapacitating the other. Lesson learned, don't put your men near your tanks.

I've had that happen too. Couldn't believe how unlucky that was.

[Michael Emrys]

I've had that happen too. Couldn't believe how unlucky that was.

I had something worse happen in my very first BN game. One of my Shermans got hit and the surviving crewmen evacuated. So the tank is sitting there burning quietly. As I was moving a couple of squads past it a couple of turns later, it suddenly decided to blow up, reducing the two squads to a useless, demoralized remnant. Sh*t happens.

Michael

[rocketman]

I had something worse happen in my very first BN game. One of my Shermans got hit and the surviving crewmen evacuated. So the tank is sitting there burning quietly. As I was moving a couple of squads past it a couple of turns later, it suddenly decided to blow up, reducing the two squads to a useless, demoralized remnant. Sh*t happens.

Michael

That tends to happen too - all to frequently, as I tend to forget that a knocked out burning tank in fact is a weapon of mass destruction

But it is one of the features of CMBN i like the most, that it is modelled.

[Stalintc]

I had an incident the other day while playing as the Brits. I had a two man sapper section behind a small bocage and one of my tanks was directly behind them. Some unseen AT gun shot and hit the tank, the AP round ricochet off directly on the ground near the two sappers killing one and incapacitating the other. Lesson learned, don't put your men near your tanks.

Yep, really bad idea, im currently playing a scenario with some Brit armoured cars involved using them and some scout troops to move ahead down the road with my main infantry force not too far behind....

All of a sudden panzerschreks start flying from the bottom end of the road, all of the shots either falling short or going over and landing behind, which has managed to take the life of one of my pixeltruppen in the main infantry force and one man from my scout team.

Lesson learnt!