el bandano Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've been playing this game for a while now but there is one thing I'm still having problems with: clearing out buildings. I've just played a game where a German command team was hiding on the third floor of a building and when I try to flush them out they kill my men in seconds. It doesn't matter if I order them to go fast, quick, slow or hunt, once they are spotted one guy with an mp40 kills the entire squad. I've tried pretty much everything I can think of, suppressing them does absolutely nothing, the bazookas and stuarts refuse to hit the third floor, mortars don't hurt them, even the artillery didn't do much damage and I can't ignore them because the building is an objective. So far the only things that work are destroying the entire building with massive artillery or sending in an entire platoon hoping I have more men than they have bullets. Both ways seem like a huge waste to deal with 4 guys. So what is the best way to deal with a situation like this? I know engineers can blow up walls, but is there a way to demolish the entire building? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagskier Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 is there a way to demolish the entire building? Ortona style! As far as I know with inf. I don't think it`s possible. Beeing quite a noob myself, I`m not sure I'm the best advice. But the best would be to outnumber them Being 1 squad shooting and pinning down the squad in the building. Then having another squad moving there. Fast to building and assault all the levels. Up to thirds floor. Thing is you need to target the 3rd floor, not the building. Tank always help to shoot some HE with target and target light is mg when your troop gets nearby. Without outnumbering them, or having greater firering power tho I don't know how... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Ofcourse there is a way to demolish the building, enough HE will do it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 A huge amount of surpressive fire both from inside and outside the building directed to the third floor should do the trick. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ----- Seriously though, would want a screenshot of the tactical situation. Is the building connected to/near any others? How much open ground between objective and nearest staging area? Demo charges available? Smoke? Suppress, smoke, demo/mousehole, assault. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well, if suppression doesn't work, it means you aren't suppressing them. Never send men into a building that you know is occupied by defenders until you have suppressed them. Once they are suppressed, you assault with an infantry section just large enough to kill any survivors (who will be in poor morale states), under the cover of overwatch. A half-squad or full squad works for this. So how do you suppress the defenders. Direct fire HE is your best bet, meaning tank or SP gun delivered typically. The poor man's solution is to use AT or infantry guns as substitutes for tanks. 75mm or larger are the best at the job, though you can get away with smaller guns in a pinch (6 lber, 37mm). Note that you don't have to level every building with this HE fire; you just need to get the defenders heads down, into poor morale states. MG fire will keep them heads down and then you can assault. So often a minute or two of HE will be enough per target. Also keep in mind that mortars do not count as effective HE in this case. These high-trajectory weapons are better suited against point targets in trench lines or wooded areas. If you don't have much HE at your disposal, substitute infantry numbers for explosives. This doesn't mean banzai charge. Rather it means position entire infantry platoons in good cover within rifle range of the target building. Then shoot it up for a couple minutes. As long as its a many on few situation (which it should be, otherwise why are you attacking?) you will get them heads down. Then close assault. Off map heavy arty can also work for concentrated, built up areas, and the same tactics apply as if using DF HE. Just note that it is less accurate and may be better used elsewhere (eg a platoon in the woods). But it can work if there is enough enemy under the footprint and you are using heavy shells (155mm+). And finally, engineers are very useful if you can approach from dead ground (wall with no windows) or from a direction the enemy is unprepared to receive you. Blow a hole through the wall, rush in and smg the stunned defenders. They are the closest thing you can get in CM to applying advanced urban infantry tactics. Hope this helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 slightly off the assaulting question, but if your pounding stubborn infantry with HE in a building. Will they suffer casualties if and when the building collapses on top of them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 havnt really tried it, but I hope they suffer more than in CMSF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 From the description given it sounds like the OP is assaulting a building that has defenders on the 3rd floor, but his heavy weapons can't target the 3rd floor, presumably because they don't have LOS to the 1st floor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 slightly off the assaulting question, but if your pounding stubborn infantry with HE in a building. Will they suffer casualties if and when the building collapses on top of them? Definitely some casualties - my only experience with this involved 2 men in a building that was destroyed and both men died. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Definitely some casualties - my only experience with this involved 2 men in a building that was destroyed and both men died. Cheers that was the answer I was hoping for 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Viajero Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Hold on a second. Those installations have a substantial dollar value attached to them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el bandano Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thanks for the replies. I tried the scenario again and this time I was able to supress them enough to finish them off with minimal casualties. I noticed something that may be a bug: if you have soldiers inside a building it becomes transparent and it is very difficult to target the attic. Not just any top floor, it has to be an attic. The only way to target it is when the camera is below the floor. Once I figured this out my supressing fire became a lot more effective and I could finally throw HE at them. Here is the exact situation, it's from the Vierville battle: Blue lines are my forces, a platoon of paratroopers. Red are (suspected) enemy positions. One command team in the top floor of the manor and a handfull of guys across the street. Getting into the building was no problem, the part I was having trouble with was moving up to the third floor. But what is the most effective order to close with and destroy a supressed enemy: quick, fast, hunt or assault? Ofcourse there is a way to demolish the building, enough HE will do it! I meant using satchel charges from pioneers/paratroopers. It would be very usefull in situations like this, where you control the first floor but the enemy is holding the top floors. Or you could blow up a building while retreating, to deny it to the opponent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thing is, ive never seen units been able to hold floors, its always been about the entire building or section. units on the bottom floor will get shot at by units in the 3rd floor and viceversa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 <sip> But what is the most effective order to close with and destroy a supressed enemy: quick, fast, hunt or assault? Quick or Fast. Eliminate Hunt because your guys will stop and forget the rest of their orders when they make contact with the enemy. Which means if your assault team is approaching the door and the see the target enemy in the building they will stop outside and engage them. Or worse if some stray bullet comes from another building they could stop and engage that previously unseen enemy. Eliminate Assault because in this context you have already suppressed the building's occupants with other fire teams. All Assault will do is split up your squad and leave teams behind to provide covering fire for your entry team. But if you already have assets providing covering fire you don't need the squad doing the entry to provide its own covering fire. I think in most cases I would go with Quick. Men moving fast get tired faster and the see less as they run hell bent. Quick covesr the ground pretty well and allows your men some ability to be observant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 As many others have said suppressing fire is a must with as much as is available. Immediately after I lift the cover fire from heavy caliber is the best time to rush in while the enemy is still stunned. Sometimes I stop them for 5 sec in front of the door before going in to area fire if grenade count is good. If you do not suppress first you will surly lose more men. It would be good for Arm Chair Gen to make a video showing this technique for new players as doing this right is critical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think in most cases I would go with Quick. Men moving fast get tired faster and the see less as they run hell bent. Quick covesr the ground pretty well and allows your men some ability to be observant. Maybe. Over a couple of hundred meters these speeds come out about the same. And Fast as a pedal to the metal dash is more tiring than Quick which simulates a jog. However there's a major advantage in acceleration when using Fast, taking care that the distance is short, 50 meters or so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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