wokelly Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Just checked it again in a QB, only 1 Piat per company from an Infantry Bat. No extra rounds in the jeeps or anything. QB TOE is a bit different than the campaign. In QB setup, no extra bren per platoon, and the PIAT is attached to one of the squads (much like the Bazooka is in the US campaigns). The PIAT is there, it is just in one of the 3 squads per platoon. Not sure why the TOE between the campaign and QB is so different though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 maybe brens got attached to units in the campaigns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Have being trying to move a 17 ponder about 10m now for 20mins and aint seem to have moved. All the crew are fit and healthy..any ideas guys? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 But here's a question for those platoon HQ's that do have PIATs (I've only played Airborne companies, which have one in the platoon leader's section). How do you wrench them from the PL's section in the first place? Now mind you, all my PL's are very brave lads, but I don't want them charging into danger to launch a PIAT at a tank 50 meters away. I want him to stick around as long as possible. But as far as I can tell, there is no way to split the PIAT off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Have being trying to move a 17 ponder about 10m now for 20mins and aint seem to have moved. All the crew are fit and healthy..any ideas guys? Are they movable by hand? Mebbes you need a gun tractor. In real life a bunch of gun bunnies (or trail apes) would have it moving as long as the ground was firm and level, perhaps BF is buying into the '17lb is too heavy to move camp' or possibly because action is imminent, the 17lb should be in the position it's going to fight the battle in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Are they movable by hand? Mebbes you need a gun tractor. In real life a bunch of gun bunnies (or trail apes) would have it moving as long as the ground was firm and level, perhaps BF is buying into the '17lb is too heavy to move camp' or possibly because action is imminent, the 17lb should be in the position it's going to fight the battle in? Poor placement to start with need to move it. It say that it will take 8mins to move but it does not appear to have moved and the crew are rested. So deffo not moving imo. If it cant be moved, why does it have a move option? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Just looking at the weight - the 17lber on Wiki is 6,720 pounds. Now that IS heavy, however nothing that a gun crew shouldn't be able to shift. We used to have races with our L118 light guns - they were 4,100lbs, a bit lighter but we could get up a canny clip with the whole crew in on the job. There's a quote floating about by a Victorian (or earlier) senoir officer. "If a goat can get there, a man can get there. And if a man can get there, he can drag a gun" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have seen a lower figure for weight. But taking yours as right that is 1000lbs per crewman roughly. I don' t see that as being movable to any degree. Being on a road might make a difference : ) But I would not expect to see that wrinkle in the game design. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 PIAT is an option for one rifle section in each platoon, making a total of 3 per company. You set the option at the bottom of the purchase screen. Normally the coy has a truck with additional PIAT ammo, but only jeeps and kubelwagens are left in the TO&E for "infantry-only" QBs. Ah, thanks! People will have to remember this when picking forces for a QB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 But taking yours as right that is 1000lbs per crewman roughly. I don' t see that as being movable to any degree. Remeber it's on wheels - and if you can lift it to the point of balance, its not that each man has 1000lbs to lift. Part of the gun stores will be drag ropes, and the hubs will have little hooks on them, so a few guys lifting and the rest pushing/dragging. Also you can get help from spare bods around. Should be do-able. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 When you were racing the Light Gun (which I've done, by the way) did you ever take all the other associated shooting stores, plus a first line of ammunition, with you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 thanks for the advice, but it looks like it will not move. It's on a slight gradient, the fact that the crew are r rested and not even attempting to move makes me think that it can not be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 No ammo, only the sights as the layer had to set the sights as the last act of the race. I only did it in internal competitions within the regiment, although other members of our battery got around quite a bit doing the gun pull, not sure what rules they had to adhere to. Good fun but ridiculously competitive - lots of minor injuries after one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 No ammo, only the sights as the layer had to set the sights as the last act ... ... and ... ? Do you see where this is going? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yes I can see where you are going but I don't think that your point is relevant. We are not talking about a gun pull of 200 metres here racing against 6 or 12 or 18 other guns, we are talking about relocating one gun - although I'm not sure how far as Para didn't specify. All I was pointing out was that it is physically possible to manually beast the 17lber . Now why BF has (apparently) made that impossible MAY be associated with your point - ie a gun comes associated with a shedload of stores and that before you have to take account of the ammo. Personally I reckon its to do with the 'You are in battle - so no tank-riders' situation, and I agree, only a nutter would drag big lumps of metal around the fields if the enemy approach was imminent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yes I can see where you are going but I don't think that your point is relevant. Well ... what do you propose to do without ammo - fix bayonets? All I was pointing out was that it is physically possible to manually beast the 17lber. Sure. It's physically possible to mannually beast a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tls-Jli6eQE. But I'm sure you don't see that in many flightsims. The 17-pr is over 50% heavier than the aptly named Light Gun. And it has a smaller crew. According to the pams, it took 12-hrs to set one up in position. Sure it's phsically possible to move the 17-pr using just manpower, but it just isn't practical. Now why BF has (apparently) made that impossible MAY be associated with your point - ie a gun comes associated with a shedload of stores and that before you have to take account of the ammo. Yep. And the same reasoning for the 88mm and other 'heavy' guns, I believe. Personally I reckon its to do with the 'You are in battle - so no tank-riders' situation, and I agree, only a nutter would drag big lumps of metal around the fields if the enemy approach was imminent. Yep, and that's definately related to the previous point about all the ancillary cr@p needed to make the gun at all useful in a new position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well, just did a quick test and my 17lber is trundling across the landscape - to be fair though its flat as a pancake. JonS - that 12 hours thing - surely thats dug in with cover - now I know the light gun is a mere young'un when compared to the 17lber, but even taking into account we had to the wheel off and spin the barrel to bring it into action we could be set up in all respects ALTHOUGH NOT DUG IN in about 5-10 minutes - cam net up, ammo set out, gun set in centre of arc and aiming points registered. However digging a gun pit - by hand - would bring it into the 12 hour period, possibly more depending on the ground. (obviously different types of gunnery involved here - Field vs A/Tank) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well, just did a quick test and my 17lber is trundling across the landscape - to be fair though its flat as a pancake. JonS - that 12 hours thing - surely thats dug in with cover - now I know the light gun is a mere young'un when compared to the 17lber, but even taking into account we had to the wheel off and spin the barrel to bring it into action we could be set up in all respects ALTHOUGH NOT DUG IN in about 5-10 minutes - cam net up, ammo set out, gun set in centre of arc and aiming points registered. However digging a gun pit - by hand - would bring it into the 12 hour period, possibly more depending on the ground. (obviously different types of gunnery involved here - Field vs A/Tank) Did you just give the crew the move order to position X? or move and deploy weapon at position X. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 "British anti-tank doctrine emphasised the need for tactical mobility equal to infantry. This meant fast reconnaissance and battle procedure, rapid cross country movement and rapid obstacle crossing. However, anti-tank guns also needed good concealment and therefore sometimes had to be man-handled into position. Wheels to support the trail while manhandling were developed for both 6-pdr and 17-pdr. Wide shields were an additional complication because they made it difficult to directly push the wheels from either direction, although both 6-pdr and 17-pdr wheels had eyes for drag ropes. The 17-pdr's weight made any manhandling hard work." From a most informative website http://nigelef.tripod.com/anti-tank.htm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Did you just give the crew the move order to position X? or move and deploy weapon at position X. Is it deployed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Is it deployed? Yes it is and gave them an order to move it at least 20 turns ago. it states on the UI that it takes 8mins to pack up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 JonS - that 12 hours thing - surely thats dug in with cover Yeah, dug in. (obviously different types of gunnery involved here - Field vs A/Tank) Oh definately. The key difference, of course, is that A-Tk gunners /expect/ to eyeball their target ... which means their target can eyecall them. Not much fun if you're sitting out like a pimple on a bum. So while /technically/ it could just be "Action action action! One thousands yards! Three two hundred mils! Enemy tanks!" then drop trails and into it ... I doubt you'd find many 17-pr BCs that'd accept that as a deployment order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 It had been unlimbered and I just told them to move. Being to super switched on cookies that ALL gunners are, they just got on with it. i think we need to play around in the editor before we get the full picture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 It had been unlimbered and I just told them to move. Being to super switched on cookies that ALL gunners are, they just got on with it. i think we need to play around in the editor before we get the full picture. I just set up a qb and told 8 crews of 17's to move in a straight line. The ground was flat for about 80m then went up an hill the last 20m. After around 8mins they moved fairly swiftly and covered the 100m. Averaging about 1.5m every 10secs and then deployed and fired quickly also. I can only imagine because I am in a battle that is affecting the gun team in my pbem. Which is very good to know for future reference 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 it states on the UI that it takes 8mins to pack up. Right. I think that is the time required to prepare it for movement by tractor. Maybe your crew is waiting for the tractor to arrive. Lazy brutes. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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