Anon052

We are not in the court room. And we are not in court procedure. 
 
Repeat after me the following statements:
 The most important for Putin pipe was not blowen The same pipe is actually in fully working condition Do you deny the existence of these two facts?
I never asked you who did it
 
 
You declared you accept only solid evidence. Now to continue conversation with you I need solid evidence that you indeed accept only solid evidence. It is useless to have a conversation with a lying pro-Ru hypocrite
 
You do know as the text is very clear - Screenshots when you ask the same thing from RU public (for example screenshots of you asking RU public to provide credible source for Putin statement that US did it).
 
So, you do not make the same demands to RU public. Got it, thanks.
 
I am at aftermath of Nord Stream explosions that benefited RU and Putin himself (that surviving pipe is his pet project). Where you are is not relevant to that. 

I have no right to vote in the US election and try to stay out of very heated discussions on the subject for my own safety's sake - so this is just a brief clarification comment on the general logic of the argument. Here it goes:
Is it not the whole point of Biden administration looking weak and bad that it can be blocked by a group of opposition House members (or, as some say, even one individual, the House speaker)? I mean, an administration which openly states its aims and then cannot carry them through looks weak precisely because of that.

Just to add to this discussion about Urban combat- troops density vs. environment seemed to be a little unusual in lack of continous lines across the city in 2022. I saw several detailed interviews with guys who survived Mariupol, and basically all underlined that it was more hit-and-run battle, with single squads (not platoons) sometimes covering hundreds of meters if not km of perimeter, with part of their force being rotated at any given time. Sometimes they could even leave urban terrain and hit Russians from the flank (there were videos with effects of such actions) or conduct small mechanzied raids. Battlespace seemed to be rather empty of masses of troops, at least that was their perception, up to the time when they were closed inside Azovstal itself.

Very well.
So what do the democracies do now to prevent unnecessary deaths caused by those silly autocracies that commit these stupid mistakes so easily?
The systemic view has its place and if the point is that democracies will triumph in the long run, I am willing to grant that for the sake of argument.
But does that help the people who are getting killed right now?
And that the support for Ukraine will be gearing down somewhat until 2025 at least? 
Is this the optimal path within democratic structures?
Because I can tell quite well how things are going. No, there will be no Russian thunder run on Warsaw or even on Kiyv. 
But Ukraine will continue to slowly bleed out for the next years while the new BRICS axis will continue their very successful hybrid strategies and affect elections on all levels of governance in those democracies to make sure that whatever they try next will receive the same response as the response to the invasion of Ukraine in 2014. 
No, we are seeing democracies failing to act, not because democracies are slower, but because they are being influenced from within and without + independent internal trust and leadership crises that were going on since before the Corona era already without any interference. The WW2 axis, while it had some players in the UK and the US, never reached this level of successful internal corrosion inside their enemies as Russia and China have reached now in Europe and the US. 
There will be no big bang. But we are observing the beginning of a long whimpering end of liberal democratic order, globally.

The army can decide whats useful and whats not.. that spare parts for active service NATO tanks are missing is a result of the Bundeswehr being a paper weight.
These spare parts are missing in the repair facility in Lithuania, not on the UA frontline! Maybe Amazon Prime could offer their services, if these parts are in stock at all.
Imagine how the NATO spearhead troops will be fighting 2 months into a conflict at current loss rates, if they cant supply parts to 20? Leo2A6s. Im sure Putin is keeping a close eye.
As for damage by the crews, I think it is equally likely they knew these tanks would not return for ages if sent away to outside repair shops so they tried to gerry rig it as best they could to get it in the field asap for the offensive/Avdiivka.
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This video is a part of "Ukrainska pravda" article about first operations of naval drones. Alas in didn't translted to English as whole, only as shortened atricles, so briefly:
1. First strike on Russian ships in the sea not far from Sevastopol should be conducten in the night from 16th on 17th September 2022. Five drones with 108 kg HE onbaoard each, despite large waves could approach to Sevastopol. Russian flagman frigade "Admiral Makarov" was spotted as main target. 70 km was left to the traget. But... Elon Musk turned off Starlink and UKR drones have lost control. Minister of digital transformation Fedorov (one of initiator of drone program), who was present in situation room tried to communicate with Musk, but he didn't want to listen. Attempts to convince him through US military channels also failed. Operation was foiled, Russian ships after this could launch missiles futher. By the way, by statistic, less then 50 % of Kalibrs were intercepted. Only two UKR drones could return to base. Other either sunk or self-exploded because of waves hit, being uncontroled. One of them was washed ashore near Sevastopol several days ago, so that was first unplanned ("thanks" to Musk) appearance or UKR naval drones on public.
2. Afer this incident with Musk, developers team researched returned drones and made many improves in construction. Gradually drones got three independent communication systems to avoid losing of control. 
So next attack was in the night from 28th to 29th of October. Four drones sailed to Sevastopol harbor, three prepared to attack Russian ships on the roadstead. Three drones attacked "Admiral Makarov" again, but only one could breack throug the waves and hit the ship in the stern part. Frigade lost speed in half and turned to harbor. In that time three other drones sneak to Streletskaya Bay, but was shelled by Russian coastal assets.
Fortunately almost near the entrance to the bay the minesweeper "Ivan Golubets" has stood and she got own 108 kh HE - explosion damaged trilling compartment. Other drones in this moment struck oil terminal. 
Damaged Russian frigade sailed to Streletskaya Bay too - Russian artillery from the coast mistakingly shelled the ship and frigade also returned fire.
In this khaos, two drones, which coouldn't approach to frigade in first attack followed them and could sneak to the bay. Russians turned on all own EW assets, so GPS signal was lost, reserve communication was partially supreswed too, but allowed to control drones by TV channel. Vice-admiral Neyizhpapa, who served long time in Sevastopol and knew all bays, personally sat in drone operator chair - first drone was directed on second frigade "Admiral Essen" but hit the point between her and ASW frigade "Ladnyi", slightly damaged both (in the artcile claimed the drone was directed between two ships, but likely unstable control caused dron missed and hit a pier between ships)  
3. After this attack, new drone "SeaBaby" was designed. Unlaike "Maliuk" with 108 kg of HE, It could carry 850 kg of HE (now it equipped also with thermobaric launchers). Also this drone got new comm system with 300 000 $ cost and was build from radio-transparent materials. Also unlike "Maliuk", developed in coperation with SBU and private companies, "SeaBaby" was designed and built exclisivley by own SBU engineers and IT team. Exactly "SeaBaby" drones hit Kerch bridge at the second time on 17th of July 2023.
The team, developed "Maliuk", after SBU decisiosn to develop own drone by own team signed agreement with GUR (Intelligence Service Directorate) and soon "Magura" drone project has appeared - these drones are under Budanov's hand. In September 2023 "Magura" in first time damaged Russian patrol ship "Sergey Kotov", though damages weren't heavy. Also claimed "SeaBaby" and "Magura" struck several other Russian ships and auxiliary vessels, but damages also weren't critical or weren't confirmed. 
4. In July 2023 Russia broken "grain agreenment" and became strike on UKR ports and elevators. Their patrol ships threatened to intercept any cargo vesels, sailing from UKR ports. Zelenskiy on Stavka meeting demanded to force Russian ships get away from western part of Black Sea. Was made a decision to show Russians theuir fleet will be vulnerable even in Novorossiysk, their second base. Cooperated operation was planned by Zaluzhnyi, Maliuk (SBU chief), Budanov (GUR chief), Neyizhpapa (Naval forces chief), Oleshchuk (Air Forces chief). So, ib the night on 4th August 2023 new  fastest drone "Mamai" went to sea. "Mamai" has lighter warhead than "SeaBaby" - 450 kg, but this is fastst drone, it can sail with a speed 110 km/h. On the way operators had many temptatins to hit tankers, carring Russian oil, but command prohibited atatck any civil vessel in neutral waters, even Russian. At last "Mamai" encountered LLS "Olenegorskiy gorniak" and successfully struckj it on the roadstead of Novorossiysk. In the article no mentions about other destroyed target - likely there were two drones, because off-shore oil terminal was hit too. On the next day other "Mamai" damaged Russian tanker "Sig", suppliying Russian miliyry. These attcks gradually forced Russians to minimaze own presence in western part of the sea and this allowed Ukraine to avoid new blocade. Reasons for Russia was not so military, but economical - after these atatcks insurance companies and freight companies have been rising own prices, so to calm situation and prices Russia was forced to withdraw. 
By the way western partners were very dissatisfied with these attcks on Novortossiysk and Kerch strait - UKR leadership got many suggestions "do not do this anymore" - Novorossiysk is a huge hub for Kazakhstan and "grey" Russian oil, which go to markets, bypassing sanctions as other brands or for delution of brands. With one hand we help Ukraine, with other hand we buy an oil in Russia, supporting their capability to wage a war. Damned real politic. Even recent scandal that Pentagon bought Russian oil only confirms this.
So, if you ask why Ukraine don't hit seriously Russiaon oil export infrastructre, adress this question to Washington.         
 
 
 

I don't want to beat a dead horse here as I can understand what you are trying to say.  But, burning people alive, beheading babies, cutting off breasts, mutilating, raping and then killing females...  We haven't seen anything like that since ISIS, and before that medieval atrocities...  Whatever Hamas was hoping to achieve, at this point it is understandable why Israel wants and needs to eliminate Hamas by any means possible - like we did with ISIS with no public outrage.  
What has also been an ugly development is the antisemitism and denial of the Oct 7 attacks being demonstrated at (some of) our elite universities.  That is also shocking.  

We hopefully all agree that war is horrible and what is happening in West Bank is horrible.  But, HAMAS was elected by the citizens of the West Bank and... according to Google:  "A poll conducted after October 7 by a research organization known as the Arab World for Research and Development found that 62 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank have a “very positive” view of Hamas and 68 percent “extremely support” the attacks of October 7.Nov 29, 2023" 
It's easy to pontificate from the safety of our western lives.  But, we have to bear in mind how we would feel if our own spouses had been cut to pieces, raped and our children been burned alive in the Oct 7 attacks.  I certainly do not feel able to judge their extreme reactions.  
 
 

@The_Capt you are much, much more knowledgeable about the legalities of war than I am, but does the Geneva Convention even apply to this conflict?  According to what I'm hearing, it's ok for Hamas to use any methods available to them but for the IDF, it's a warcrime to:
Flood Hamas' tunnels. Bomb buildings with Hamas fighters. Level a city that produces vicious terrorists by the 1000s. Attack sites launching rockets into Israel. On and on... If you were the IDF general in charge of combat operations in Gaza what would you do? Risk warcrime accusations after the war or throw up your hands and say "I give up! - Cease fire"?
I don't think you can't put UN observers in there. That is just dangerous and counter productive.  Hamas, for one, would just kill or take them hostage whenever the situation presents itself.  And would the IDF have to ask UN permission each time they shoot?
I have no problem with folks disagreeing with some of the IDF's methods, it's a war, but they have to give alternative options for the IDF or it's all just pie in the sky.  Wouldn't you agree or am I completely off base?

Wow, this thread has really derailed lately into a generalised college dorm bull session on world affairs. A lot of opinionating and emoting by the same 15 regulars. Only @Harmon Rabb is trying to post anything remotely factual any more.
...Actually, the Twittersphere in general seems much the same. A lot of scolding and 'on message' broken record slogans, and What Now Must We Do emoting. Fragments of anecdata only,  and analysis (body counts, wreck counts) seem stale and repetitive. Just marching in place, yet things are changing.
 
1. What the hell *is* happening in Poland? I'd love to hear from our Polish comrades who seem strangely silent of late: @Maciej Zwolinski, @Beleg85?
What's the beef with the truckers? Are they just looking for a payoff, or do they actually want to hobble Ukraine's war effort?  Why?
 
2.
@Haiduk, how are things in Kyiv?  Are Zeleban's views on fatigue and disillusionment on point? (I for one don't doubt his sincerity or his goodwill, nor do I believe he's parroting Russian troll farms)
@kraze what are people saying in your corner of the Austro-Hungarian empire?
Angry denunciations of betrayals and foot-dragging by the West aside -- real or imagined -- what are you guys seeing or hearing about going downhill there?
I'm going to suspend posting for a bit myself, since I have far more questions than answers on the macro situation, and no one here seems much interested in the battlefield itself these days.

No. Europeans just bored of illegal non-europeans migration, impunity of migrants, their roistering, crawling islamazation and leftist speeches "we need more migrants for culture enrichment". They bored to feed all these agressive, laizy robs from own taxes, which as gratitude then conduct knife attacks in schools like in Dublin recently, trade dugs on the streets and turned out many places in Eurpoean capitals in scrap-heap.
When I see dozen- and hundred thousands Muslim migrant marches in Germany, England and France, supporting Palestina (really supporting Hamas attack), carring flags of Khalifat, Al-Caeda etc, when I see speeches of migrants in Germany "We need Sharia right here", when I see landing of hunderds Africans in Spain and Italy, when I read how German leftist human rights organizations sponsored contrabandists, who transfer migrants through Mediterranian Sea, I also would be vote for anybody, who stop this s...t or to protect own country from this new hidden Arab invasion. 
So, this is maybe not good for us now, but this is good for long perspective to keep Europe as Europe, where we can celebrate Christmass as Christian holyday and eat a pork, whithout imposed shame that doing this "we offend Muslim's feelings, so we shouldn't do this". Else Europens will no more a masters on own land and will turn out soon themeselves in reservations.
By the way after "right-wing" spectre G.Meloni became a prime-minister of Italy, many in Ukraine expected that Italy will more turn into Russian side, but all happened viсe versa.

More the pendulum moves to the left then stronger will be move to the right. This is an order of nature balance. But if Richard Lionheart would be see thousands of Muslims, making namaz in the center of London he would be die of heart attack %)
On my opinion existance of completely differrent cultures in one country, especially one of them is enough expansionistic  and exceeds other by demography, that early or later probability of conflict will be growth. This is like in nature one species reach into new place and hasn't natural enemies (in EU case has multiple law protections and social guaranties, allowing them do not work), this scpecies soon occupies whole ecosystem and expel or eat other species around. 
PS. I know in Germany live large community of Turks and Kurds, but they, especially who live in Germany for long time, or already are children of migrants mostly are peaceful employed citizens. But current situation is completely different - Arab and African migrants don't whish to integrate into western society, now they gather in large communities, feel own strenght to dictate own demands (rejection of Macron to join a march against anti-semitism, for example after threat of of riots in migrant quaretrs), now they want that western society was subordinated to their traditions and lifestyle. 

Fact of illegal migration is a fact, which plays on political situation in EU and this can affect on the political support of Ukraine. Russia also stimulates both illegal migration (you can recall situation on Polish and Baltia borders before a war and current sitaution in Finland) and populist right parties like German AfD. Wise strategy - divide and rule.  
I don't know about what health of economy if taxpayers must pay from own pockets milliards to support of hords of these "refugees". So, I greeting a decision of Germany to reduce payments for them (and for Ukrainain refugees too). About our compatriots - enough part of them lost own conscience, for two years they just live on own 450 EUR of allowance, don't want to study a language and work, but show in Instagram, how they rest in Turkey or havee a trip to Paris and complain that they forced to live in "tough conditions". Damned bastards, did you expected hotel appartment with lobsters and wine each morning? I visited Malta in 2019 - they havn't problem with illegal migration. Do you want to live here? Go to work. Do not want to work? Get out. 

Never did I say something about 'you' specifically, when I am refering to the west, I am talking politicians.
About the article, it doesnt mention sums anywhere, just promises for nato and "support for whatever it takes*". *conditions apply, to be revoked at any election. You cannot with a straight face tell me there are still legitimate escalatory problems with sending taurus missiles 600 days in.
If there is a will for nato acceptance, it will be done, if not, there will be a thousand stones in the way.
Its a promise build purely on trust, unlike previous guarantees, which were signed and supposedly obligating.
32 Abrams tanks in a war which has consumed 688 UA tanks, there obviously are limits to these promises and treatees, why should I believe this support will be different in 10 years time, when other issues create conditions under which Putin sees a good opportunity to strike?
Should Ukraine then cede the next cities and maybe the Black Sea, because its too much effort to take it back? The salami slice has already happened 3 times in Ukraine, excluding Putins previous wars!

C’mon, seriously?!  So those rural slaves had influence on their masters decisions on going to war?  Just because a bunch of rich guys own country estates does not make a direct link to dirt farmers working those lands and foreign policy.
Well before we embrace the “benign mercantile empires”: https://slaveryandremembrance.org/articles/article/?id=A0145
They were backstopped by taking indigenous peoples and making them free labour.
War is not the fault of any one sector or level of human society.  Any cursory review of its history shows this clearly.  The “peaceful, noble savage bunch” say it was all “big city’s” fault.  Now Taleb is going the other way and trying to blame “peasants”.  Big money of course is the only way to go because lord knows we never went to war over money.
Humans go to war because it is baked into the species.  We have done it since the Dawn of our history and consistently found reasons to do it, even when it made no sense.  Trying to blame it on a section of society is the weak thinking.

There are early reports of hevay Russian attacks on Avdiivka today.
Meanwhile, such situation of Russian armoured column trying to reinforce the push...to be fair to them, it seems this time engineers were drunk rather than crewmen. Bridge looks very narrow.
Sorry, but this is no-argument. How many of us happen to live in Africa? It's entirely natural that violent and unexpected close conflict on massive scale unseen from WWII (in Europe), especially one involving major powers that sends nuclear threats on daily basis, generates far more interest than some guerilla on other side of the world. Looking on human sociology, there is no such thing as "global citizen". Also, fact that Ukrainians carry on with their daily lives does change nothing.

Well, it is just one World War / Cold War at a time, and this is all simply part of it.
Yes, I know, there was this discussion about the definition of world war some pages back, but I think what we are seeing is clearly the early stages of a new lukewarm war in which two global blocs try to outdo each other, create chaos, start operations and needlepricks to weaken each other (well, one bloc is. The other bloc, which is us, is mostly bending over and taking the proverbial beating with whatever stick is being chosen this month).
It is the declared goal of China, Russia and Iran to dissolve the "Western bloc" (no remotely comparable position exists in the West). Sure, they are not behind every single negative thing globally (e.g. the Hamas likely acted very independently in Israel), but they will jump on exploiting every opportunity that so happens to present itself to increase its destabilizing effect on those countries who came to the conclusion "maybe genociding people for territory is actually not okay" over the last century - a shaky minority position on the globe and in human history, and it will get smaller.
The Western bloc meanwhile is mostly apathic, selling weapon parts to its own enemies, sharing technology with the enemy, moving its industrial bases to the enemy territory, while allowing foreign propagandists and spies to move freely in the midst of their populations, both in cyberspace and real space.
We are currently losing intentionally and willingly and with seeing eyes, mostly because it allows certain Western oligarchs to continue to make money and because big parts of our populations enjoy the fantasy of "if we just focus on ourselves nothing bad will happen to us" too much.
Ukraine is just ahead of the curve by miles compared to the other Western countries (and yes, at this point I count Ukraine as part of the Western bloc) in understanding this, and thus also tries to grasp for every opportunity which presents itself.

I read the newsarticle Seedorf posted that somehow claimed new kind of evidence surfaced but everything in there was identical to the investigative report that was published in germany more in depth roughly a  month ago and was discussed here too. The german investigative report was very onesided and ignored a lot of evidence  that pointed in russian direction and it failed to plausibly establish how the Andromeda could do the northsteam sabotage.  The only  new "fact" in the dutch article was that traces of the explosive HMX was found at the site of sabotage. I am no forensic expert but there are different reasons I would be highly sceptical of this fact. But even if true. HMX would be one  of the most probable explosives that one would use for such a bombing by diver. And if the Andromeda was a false Flag, then it would be very easy for the perpetrator to plant the same kind of explosive that was used in the bombings.
You say the complexity of the operation was overestimated. Do you have any idea what kind of complexity is needed to do this kind of operation? I work in UXO,UXB, ERB disposal in the northsea, baltic sea and rivers. I work on specialised ships and with divers (most of them  with navy background) that do exactly this kind of work that would be needed for the northstream sabotage.
The complexity of this operation is a LOT more than just being able to do the dive. The equipment needed just to do the simple dive ignoring all of the  other specialised equipment: on the ships I work on this equipment is located in  containers that are half as big as the Andromeda. All those gastanks alone do take a lot of room. You need a lot more of those for a deep sea diving suit/ hard-hat than you would for a simple diving suit.
The first problem the divers  had to overcome is to find the pipelines and then the right locations for the bombing. This alone is a very big problem. To locate those you need a depth sonar or a submersible. Good luck instaling those on the Andromeda.  In those depths it is pitch black. Those divers have to work completely blind. They are trained to do so but they still need instruction  by those one the ship  with exactly this kind of equipment that the Andromeda lacks. And on top of that they did this on the same day at  three different locations. And they did the dive on a very instable plattform which means high chance of death.
Then there is the question of  the explosives. The theory that was presented in the investigative report was that only a small amount was used.  There exist seismic profiles of those explosions  and those hint  at  a  bigger amount of explosives used. It is not conclusive evidence but it points in another direction.
Not one of the divers I work with thinks its realistically possible to do the northstream sabotage from the  Andromeda in a short amount of time.
There is more  I could write but it is already late here I have to work very early tomorrow.
One thing I have to say. The reporting on northsteam really does remind me on the reporting in german media about MH17 after it happend. The media tried to be "neutral" but it was mostly pointing in ukrainian direction and sometimes it was just reciting russian propaganda. Even after Bellingcat could show exactly what BUK was used by which unit german media ignored this evidence. It was only after the dutch reports with conclusive evidence were published that the reporting did change.
 

I read the newsarticle Seedorf posted that somehow claimed new kind of evidence surfaced but everything in there was identical to the investigative report that was published in germany more in depth roughly a  month ago and was discussed here too. The german investigative report was very onesided and ignored a lot of evidence  that pointed in russian direction and it failed to plausibly establish how the Andromeda could do the northsteam sabotage.  The only  new "fact" in the dutch article was that traces of the explosive HMX was found at the site of sabotage. I am no forensic expert but there are different reasons I would be highly sceptical of this fact. But even if true. HMX would be one  of the most probable explosives that one would use for such a bombing by diver. And if the Andromeda was a false Flag, then it would be very easy for the perpetrator to plant the same kind of explosive that was used in the bombings.
You say the complexity of the operation was overestimated. Do you have any idea what kind of complexity is needed to do this kind of operation? I work in UXO,UXB, ERB disposal in the northsea, baltic sea and rivers. I work on specialised ships and with divers (most of them  with navy background) that do exactly this kind of work that would be needed for the northstream sabotage.
The complexity of this operation is a LOT more than just being able to do the dive. The equipment needed just to do the simple dive ignoring all of the  other specialised equipment: on the ships I work on this equipment is located in  containers that are half as big as the Andromeda. All those gastanks alone do take a lot of room. You need a lot more of those for a deep sea diving suit/ hard-hat than you would for a simple diving suit.
The first problem the divers  had to overcome is to find the pipelines and then the right locations for the bombing. This alone is a very big problem. To locate those you need a depth sonar or a submersible. Good luck instaling those on the Andromeda.  In those depths it is pitch black. Those divers have to work completely blind. They are trained to do so but they still need instruction  by those one the ship  with exactly this kind of equipment that the Andromeda lacks. And on top of that they did this on the same day at  three different locations. And they did the dive on a very instable plattform which means high chance of death.
Then there is the question of  the explosives. The theory that was presented in the investigative report was that only a small amount was used.  There exist seismic profiles of those explosions  and those hint  at  a  bigger amount of explosives used. It is not conclusive evidence but it points in another direction.
Not one of the divers I work with thinks its realistically possible to do the northstream sabotage from the  Andromeda in a short amount of time.
There is more  I could write but it is already late here I have to work very early tomorrow.
One thing I have to say. The reporting on northsteam really does remind me on the reporting in german media about MH17 after it happend. The media tried to be "neutral" but it was mostly pointing in ukrainian direction and sometimes it was just reciting russian propaganda. Even after Bellingcat could show exactly what BUK was used by which unit german media ignored this evidence. It was only after the dutch reports with conclusive evidence were published that the reporting did change.
 

I read the newsarticle Seedorf posted that somehow claimed new kind of evidence surfaced but everything in there was identical to the investigative report that was published in germany more in depth roughly a  month ago and was discussed here too. The german investigative report was very onesided and ignored a lot of evidence  that pointed in russian direction and it failed to plausibly establish how the Andromeda could do the northsteam sabotage.  The only  new "fact" in the dutch article was that traces of the explosive HMX was found at the site of sabotage. I am no forensic expert but there are different reasons I would be highly sceptical of this fact. But even if true. HMX would be one  of the most probable explosives that one would use for such a bombing by diver. And if the Andromeda was a false Flag, then it would be very easy for the perpetrator to plant the same kind of explosive that was used in the bombings.
You say the complexity of the operation was overestimated. Do you have any idea what kind of complexity is needed to do this kind of operation? I work in UXO,UXB, ERB disposal in the northsea, baltic sea and rivers. I work on specialised ships and with divers (most of them  with navy background) that do exactly this kind of work that would be needed for the northstream sabotage.
The complexity of this operation is a LOT more than just being able to do the dive. The equipment needed just to do the simple dive ignoring all of the  other specialised equipment: on the ships I work on this equipment is located in  containers that are half as big as the Andromeda. All those gastanks alone do take a lot of room. You need a lot more of those for a deep sea diving suit/ hard-hat than you would for a simple diving suit.
The first problem the divers  had to overcome is to find the pipelines and then the right locations for the bombing. This alone is a very big problem. To locate those you need a depth sonar or a submersible. Good luck instaling those on the Andromeda.  In those depths it is pitch black. Those divers have to work completely blind. They are trained to do so but they still need instruction  by those one the ship  with exactly this kind of equipment that the Andromeda lacks. And on top of that they did this on the same day at  three different locations. And they did the dive on a very instable plattform which means high chance of death.
Then there is the question of  the explosives. The theory that was presented in the investigative report was that only a small amount was used.  There exist seismic profiles of those explosions  and those hint  at  a  bigger amount of explosives used. It is not conclusive evidence but it points in another direction.
Not one of the divers I work with thinks its realistically possible to do the northstream sabotage from the  Andromeda in a short amount of time.
There is more  I could write but it is already late here I have to work very early tomorrow.
One thing I have to say. The reporting on northsteam really does remind me on the reporting in german media about MH17 after it happend. The media tried to be "neutral" but it was mostly pointing in ukrainian direction and sometimes it was just reciting russian propaganda. Even after Bellingcat could show exactly what BUK was used by which unit german media ignored this evidence. It was only after the dutch reports with conclusive evidence were published that the reporting did change.
 

I read the newsarticle Seedorf posted that somehow claimed new kind of evidence surfaced but everything in there was identical to the investigative report that was published in germany more in depth roughly a  month ago and was discussed here too. The german investigative report was very onesided and ignored a lot of evidence  that pointed in russian direction and it failed to plausibly establish how the Andromeda could do the northsteam sabotage.  The only  new "fact" in the dutch article was that traces of the explosive HMX was found at the site of sabotage. I am no forensic expert but there are different reasons I would be highly sceptical of this fact. But even if true. HMX would be one  of the most probable explosives that one would use for such a bombing by diver. And if the Andromeda was a false Flag, then it would be very easy for the perpetrator to plant the same kind of explosive that was used in the bombings.
You say the complexity of the operation was overestimated. Do you have any idea what kind of complexity is needed to do this kind of operation? I work in UXO,UXB, ERB disposal in the northsea, baltic sea and rivers. I work on specialised ships and with divers (most of them  with navy background) that do exactly this kind of work that would be needed for the northstream sabotage.
The complexity of this operation is a LOT more than just being able to do the dive. The equipment needed just to do the simple dive ignoring all of the  other specialised equipment: on the ships I work on this equipment is located in  containers that are half as big as the Andromeda. All those gastanks alone do take a lot of room. You need a lot more of those for a deep sea diving suit/ hard-hat than you would for a simple diving suit.
The first problem the divers  had to overcome is to find the pipelines and then the right locations for the bombing. This alone is a very big problem. To locate those you need a depth sonar or a submersible. Good luck instaling those on the Andromeda.  In those depths it is pitch black. Those divers have to work completely blind. They are trained to do so but they still need instruction  by those one the ship  with exactly this kind of equipment that the Andromeda lacks. And on top of that they did this on the same day at  three different locations. And they did the dive on a very instable plattform which means high chance of death.
Then there is the question of  the explosives. The theory that was presented in the investigative report was that only a small amount was used.  There exist seismic profiles of those explosions  and those hint  at  a  bigger amount of explosives used. It is not conclusive evidence but it points in another direction.
Not one of the divers I work with thinks its realistically possible to do the northstream sabotage from the  Andromeda in a short amount of time.
There is more  I could write but it is already late here I have to work very early tomorrow.
One thing I have to say. The reporting on northsteam really does remind me on the reporting in german media about MH17 after it happend. The media tried to be "neutral" but it was mostly pointing in ukrainian direction and sometimes it was just reciting russian propaganda. Even after Bellingcat could show exactly what BUK was used by which unit german media ignored this evidence. It was only after the dutch reports with conclusive evidence were published that the reporting did change.
 

I read the newsarticle Seedorf posted that somehow claimed new kind of evidence surfaced but everything in there was identical to the investigative report that was published in germany more in depth roughly a  month ago and was discussed here too. The german investigative report was very onesided and ignored a lot of evidence  that pointed in russian direction and it failed to plausibly establish how the Andromeda could do the northsteam sabotage.  The only  new "fact" in the dutch article was that traces of the explosive HMX was found at the site of sabotage. I am no forensic expert but there are different reasons I would be highly sceptical of this fact. But even if true. HMX would be one  of the most probable explosives that one would use for such a bombing by diver. And if the Andromeda was a false Flag, then it would be very easy for the perpetrator to plant the same kind of explosive that was used in the bombings.
You say the complexity of the operation was overestimated. Do you have any idea what kind of complexity is needed to do this kind of operation? I work in UXO,UXB, ERB disposal in the northsea, baltic sea and rivers. I work on specialised ships and with divers (most of them  with navy background) that do exactly this kind of work that would be needed for the northstream sabotage.
The complexity of this operation is a LOT more than just being able to do the dive. The equipment needed just to do the simple dive ignoring all of the  other specialised equipment: on the ships I work on this equipment is located in  containers that are half as big as the Andromeda. All those gastanks alone do take a lot of room. You need a lot more of those for a deep sea diving suit/ hard-hat than you would for a simple diving suit.
The first problem the divers  had to overcome is to find the pipelines and then the right locations for the bombing. This alone is a very big problem. To locate those you need a depth sonar or a submersible. Good luck instaling those on the Andromeda.  In those depths it is pitch black. Those divers have to work completely blind. They are trained to do so but they still need instruction  by those one the ship  with exactly this kind of equipment that the Andromeda lacks. And on top of that they did this on the same day at  three different locations. And they did the dive on a very instable plattform which means high chance of death.
Then there is the question of  the explosives. The theory that was presented in the investigative report was that only a small amount was used.  There exist seismic profiles of those explosions  and those hint  at  a  bigger amount of explosives used. It is not conclusive evidence but it points in another direction.
Not one of the divers I work with thinks its realistically possible to do the northstream sabotage from the  Andromeda in a short amount of time.
There is more  I could write but it is already late here I have to work very early tomorrow.
One thing I have to say. The reporting on northsteam really does remind me on the reporting in german media about MH17 after it happend. The media tried to be "neutral" but it was mostly pointing in ukrainian direction and sometimes it was just reciting russian propaganda. Even after Bellingcat could show exactly what BUK was used by which unit german media ignored this evidence. It was only after the dutch reports with conclusive evidence were published that the reporting did change.
 

I read the newsarticle Seedorf posted that somehow claimed new kind of evidence surfaced but everything in there was identical to the investigative report that was published in germany more in depth roughly a  month ago and was discussed here too. The german investigative report was very onesided and ignored a lot of evidence  that pointed in russian direction and it failed to plausibly establish how the Andromeda could do the northsteam sabotage.  The only  new "fact" in the dutch article was that traces of the explosive HMX was found at the site of sabotage. I am no forensic expert but there are different reasons I would be highly sceptical of this fact. But even if true. HMX would be one  of the most probable explosives that one would use for such a bombing by diver. And if the Andromeda was a false Flag, then it would be very easy for the perpetrator to plant the same kind of explosive that was used in the bombings.
You say the complexity of the operation was overestimated. Do you have any idea what kind of complexity is needed to do this kind of operation? I work in UXO,UXB, ERB disposal in the northsea, baltic sea and rivers. I work on specialised ships and with divers (most of them  with navy background) that do exactly this kind of work that would be needed for the northstream sabotage.
The complexity of this operation is a LOT more than just being able to do the dive. The equipment needed just to do the simple dive ignoring all of the  other specialised equipment: on the ships I work on this equipment is located in  containers that are half as big as the Andromeda. All those gastanks alone do take a lot of room. You need a lot more of those for a deep sea diving suit/ hard-hat than you would for a simple diving suit.
The first problem the divers  had to overcome is to find the pipelines and then the right locations for the bombing. This alone is a very big problem. To locate those you need a depth sonar or a submersible. Good luck instaling those on the Andromeda.  In those depths it is pitch black. Those divers have to work completely blind. They are trained to do so but they still need instruction  by those one the ship  with exactly this kind of equipment that the Andromeda lacks. And on top of that they did this on the same day at  three different locations. And they did the dive on a very instable plattform which means high chance of death.
Then there is the question of  the explosives. The theory that was presented in the investigative report was that only a small amount was used.  There exist seismic profiles of those explosions  and those hint  at  a  bigger amount of explosives used. It is not conclusive evidence but it points in another direction.
Not one of the divers I work with thinks its realistically possible to do the northstream sabotage from the  Andromeda in a short amount of time.
There is more  I could write but it is already late here I have to work very early tomorrow.
One thing I have to say. The reporting on northsteam really does remind me on the reporting in german media about MH17 after it happend. The media tried to be "neutral" but it was mostly pointing in ukrainian direction and sometimes it was just reciting russian propaganda. Even after Bellingcat could show exactly what BUK was used by which unit german media ignored this evidence. It was only after the dutch reports with conclusive evidence were published that the reporting did change.
 

I read the newsarticle Seedorf posted that somehow claimed new kind of evidence surfaced but everything in there was identical to the investigative report that was published in germany more in depth roughly a  month ago and was discussed here too. The german investigative report was very onesided and ignored a lot of evidence  that pointed in russian direction and it failed to plausibly establish how the Andromeda could do the northsteam sabotage.  The only  new "fact" in the dutch article was that traces of the explosive HMX was found at the site of sabotage. I am no forensic expert but there are different reasons I would be highly sceptical of this fact. But even if true. HMX would be one  of the most probable explosives that one would use for such a bombing by diver. And if the Andromeda was a false Flag, then it would be very easy for the perpetrator to plant the same kind of explosive that was used in the bombings.
You say the complexity of the operation was overestimated. Do you have any idea what kind of complexity is needed to do this kind of operation? I work in UXO,UXB, ERB disposal in the northsea, baltic sea and rivers. I work on specialised ships and with divers (most of them  with navy background) that do exactly this kind of work that would be needed for the northstream sabotage.
The complexity of this operation is a LOT more than just being able to do the dive. The equipment needed just to do the simple dive ignoring all of the  other specialised equipment: on the ships I work on this equipment is located in  containers that are half as big as the Andromeda. All those gastanks alone do take a lot of room. You need a lot more of those for a deep sea diving suit/ hard-hat than you would for a simple diving suit.
The first problem the divers  had to overcome is to find the pipelines and then the right locations for the bombing. This alone is a very big problem. To locate those you need a depth sonar or a submersible. Good luck instaling those on the Andromeda.  In those depths it is pitch black. Those divers have to work completely blind. They are trained to do so but they still need instruction  by those one the ship  with exactly this kind of equipment that the Andromeda lacks. And on top of that they did this on the same day at  three different locations. And they did the dive on a very instable plattform which means high chance of death.
Then there is the question of  the explosives. The theory that was presented in the investigative report was that only a small amount was used.  There exist seismic profiles of those explosions  and those hint  at  a  bigger amount of explosives used. It is not conclusive evidence but it points in another direction.
Not one of the divers I work with thinks its realistically possible to do the northstream sabotage from the  Andromeda in a short amount of time.
There is more  I could write but it is already late here I have to work very early tomorrow.
One thing I have to say. The reporting on northsteam really does remind me on the reporting in german media about MH17 after it happend. The media tried to be "neutral" but it was mostly pointing in ukrainian direction and sometimes it was just reciting russian propaganda. Even after Bellingcat could show exactly what BUK was used by which unit german media ignored this evidence. It was only after the dutch reports with conclusive evidence were published that the reporting did change.