Chris Ferrous

Files sent to all responders to date. Many thanks for offering to test this and I appreciate your feedback.

I'm midway through making a new small scale scenario (CMBN:CW) and would appreciate testers to give their opinion on viability, difficulty, improvements etc.., as well as potential additional AI plans. It is playable as either side versus AI (but has just one plan each side so far) and I'm sure it would be interesting HvH. My results v AI have been startlingly varied so it's been impossble to really assess balance and of course, as designer, I know, even if I pretend I don't, what's happening. It is a 1940 scenario, fictional, but accrueing details from several real battles, and involves an incompletely destroyed bridge over a small river (The Lanne). The attacking German Infantry must probe at night and take the village on the far side of the river. They are opposed by a small British Mechanised Cavalry force (1940 equiped). Thats the only briefing you get so far. If any one is interested then please PM me through this site and give an email address to which I can send the file (or I'll PM you back with my email). Screenshots and discussions can be left here if you like. Depending on response I may just send out to the first six potential testers, but will let you know what's happening through this thread. Cheers and thanks in advance. CF

@ womble Thanks very much, that's an entirely logical explanation.

Yes, I've recently noticed this as well. Surprised I hadn't identified it before. It seems to apply to both on and off-board artillery and mortars. If the reverse is true, and I've no reason to believe it is, and exhausting smoke rounds leads to the HE being unavailable then it would be a serious bug. As it is, I can live with it, just leave a couple of HE in stock, then fire off your smoke.

Ok, I think I see how my scenario worked out now:- So, the AC Recon toddles off down the road and disappears over a crest while the Company CO (with full CoC to artillery) anxiously watches its progress through his field glasses. Shhhtuk Shhtuk hisses the radio, 'Recon 1 reporting, 200m over crest, no contact, traversing right, plan to return by way of . . . '. The transmission is cut off abruptly and is shortly followed by a distant booompf sound accompanied by a pall of dense black smoke somewhere over the crest. 'Oh dear! Hans has bought it', shrieks the Adjutant. 'No, he's found the enemy, and he's got nine lives' says the CO. 'Chuck a bit of smoke over there, if there's any survivors it just may help them get back'. Desperately straining through his field glasses once more, the CO spots Hans' crew running raggedly to the right through wisps of smoke while going to ground from time to time as they come under distant MG fire. The crew reach a patch of scrub near the crest and disappear into it. The CO quickly issues orders for the Company to advance in a very loose formation with the Panzers just behind. As they move out he surveys the scrubby knoll concealing the bailed crew once more. What's this? Hans, yes it's Hans, is waving frantically and doing his best boy scout semaphore impression using two tunic tops as flags. Despite the incoming fire Hans relays his message, 'Platoon Shermans in line on road below, accompanied by about a Company of Infantry, location PDQ911, fire for effect immediate!'. The CO immediately calls up a heavy artillery strike, which falls just before the advance reaches the crest. As they break the crest multiple plumes of black smoke rise from the valley below, and the battle scarred ground reveals the strewn bodies of scores of enemy infantry caught in the open. Unfortunately a slightly more quietly brewing Sherman with just a slightly wonky barrel spots the 4 Panthers as they crest the rise, and despite being surrounded by burning debris, and full of holes, it fires unerringly into each Panther in turn, destroying 3 and casuing the fourth to retreat over the crest. It then pumps HE into the scrub which had been Hans' crew's haven only moments before. As the Sherman finally explodes, the only survivor, Brad, the youngest Tank Commander to come out of Springfield School, leaps to safety and takes cover behind a foliage bush type A from where he calls in a P51 air-strike by flashing the foil on the inside of his pack of Lucky Strikes at the waiting 'cab rank' above. As the final Panther makes a graceful pirouete mid-air, and his Infantry cower in the crater pocked field the CO shakes his immaculately kid-skinned gloved fist at the P51 and shrieks, 'You may win this time you little Pheasant Plucker, but we'll be back tomorrow, and this field will be covered in Crop 6, you know the pretty one with all the blue flowers, and my dismounted AFV crews will advance in front of the infantry and meet your dismounted crews in unarmed combat. Then, only then, will you know the taste of defeat . . .'. With a sinister smile the CO pressed ESC, QUIT, EXIT, and SHUTDOWN and while waiting for the inevitable updates to install quietly contemplated the battle tomorrow.

No CoC for artillery? Are you sure?

The crew had been in a recon vehicle (AC) so normally would be perfectly entitled to call a strike. Even if immobilised but the radio was working then no problem, but the AC was a burning wreck! They were not a FO team. The crew escaped over 200 metres away and sighted a target which they hit with linear fire in normal reaction time.

Not noticed this before but it seems bailed tank crew (German anyway in my case) whose vehicle is a burning wreck can still access and call in an artillery strike even though they've no radio and are out of contact verbally or visually with any other unit. This can't be right. Anyone else seen this? BTW it landed bang on taget too!

Hi Sergei Sarcasm's fine but will there be any degree of compatability (with maps especially) between CMBI and CMBN/CW and future modules?

It could be that you are playing what is intended to be an AI only scenario for your side and you (should be it) may have been given full intelligence at scenario start. This could explain why your opponent can see next to nothing and why you can see everything. Overall though I see nothing wrong in the side being fired upon not knowing from where the fire is coming , for a time anyway.

I would have thought the best place for a contour map would be in the tactical map view in the briefing. Even if this was done in a 'table top miniatures' way with clunky hills etc it would help. Otherwise spot heights or a few contours would suffice.

All the above is true. It also applies to fortifications and mines. I prefer at least one of the AI's plans to have a variable set-up and usually when the game starts the facing etc conforms to the general trend of the scenario, i.e. how the designer has placed and faced the units and the direction of the friendly mapedge. But, I have found that a small proportion of units can deploy on the 'wrong side' of a fence/hedge/bocage etc if the set-up zone (painted AI zone) includes the tile through which the barrier passes. Missing out the tile which includes the barrier doesn't seem to be an option, especially for bocage, because although the unit will then deploy on the correct side of the barrier it cannot see through it, nor will it move that fraction to acquire LOS! So the simplest solution is to leave the units in place and not give them a variable set-up. I have experimented with deploying units up to a barrier by planned movement; e.g. units set-up some distance back and are then given a move to that barrier order as soon as the scenario starts (or whenever you as designer want the move to be made), and in that case the units WILL deploy on the side of the barrier from which they approach. From my experience the most frustrating things about AI plans are:- 1) upon arrival at a location the unit immediately assumes the facing for any subsequent planned moves, however far ahead in time that may be. This is especially important and frustrating for AFVs which can present their rear to the enemy if they have a planned move rearward later in the scenario, 2) the next waypoint in a sequence of moves is chosen at random regardless of whereabouts in a waypoint zone the unit happens to be, so it could move to the left of the zone for waypoint 1 and then choose to go to the far right for waypoint 2 etc., so consider 'global movements' from one waypoint zone to the next and limit them accordingly dependent on terrain and the likely tactical situation. It's all good fun!

Some scenarios may only have one AI plan, but if it's 'painted with a big brush' it can still produce some variety. Others may have the full works, 6 plans all carefully tweaked, and there can be quite a bit of variability as a result. Ironically it is possible for the simplest plans to produce the most variability. For instance, an order for a single platoon to target an advance indicated by a single line right the way across a map from flank to flank, could, by random chance, result in the entire platoon advancing down one flank one time, or spread all the way across or straight down the centre another time. Essentially the designer can try to choreograph the entire game, or he can try to put in a bit of randomness and variety. I prefer the latter because that way I can play a scenario I made myself without knowing exactly what, where and when everything is going to happen.

The AI is fairly complicated to 'program' well but even then, as stated already, it has no real reactivity at all - no 'what ifs'! The only reaction the AI can make is at the individual unit level. For instance, a tank may take a panzerfaust hit and it'll usually back-off to avoid the threat and then come forward again when it is no longer thought to be threatened. Sometimes it may even try to go around the enemy threat; although vehicles seem more likely than foot units to do this. On the attack, the AI plan for a particular unit/ group can be fought to a standstill in that unit morale may well drop to the point that once a unit is under fire again it either will not go forward or it even runs away. This gives the appearance of reactivity I suppose but it is a result of unit cohesiveness which affects your units too. What the AI definitely cannot do is to exploit or pursue which is a great shame. And of course this is the great advantage you have over the AI. The biggest change from CM1 is that the AI does not care about 'objectives' / current 'score' at all, and it will continue to follow the plan till prevented from doing so. Also, it is my impression, not confirmed b testing that unit command grouping is less well preserved in CM2 than CM1 which is disappointing, and that the waypoint system, unless nodal, has no facing element so that a unit advancing on the left to waypoint 1 may suddenly switch to the right, and vice versa, when it comes to try to get to waypoint 2. It would have been great if having arrived ay WP1, the unit then went for the first WP2 directly in front of its current facing.

Hi CM1 did have the expand and contract a map in any direction option but it needed a SHIFT key press to do it the opposite way to default (which I think was north and east). Thanks for letting me know about the limitations in expansion (can anyone else confirm, please?) as I frequently start with a small section of map which requires great detail so as to reduce loading times, then expand to the full battle map later.

I've definitely had units with both 'fausts and 'schreks that swapped to small arms as the situation demanded. I even saw a 'schreker pick-up an MG42 (via buddy aid) and use it quite effectively until there was a vehicle target which it dispatched. He then gave buddy aid to another casualty and swapped the MG42 for a pistol. It was only then I realised the MG and the 'schrek were out of ammo. So all round a pretty effective performance by the friendly AI.

Even if I covered the gun barrel with slime and green stuff it wouldn't work? I actually touched a relic of a PAK 38 ATG at the weekend. I can assure you all that it would not be easy to spot, possibly even behind a slight dip in a short grazed field of grass!

Thanks, interesting comments. Yes, I realised it wasn't such a bad position as one might have expected. Trouble is I've seen guns even behind bocage spotted in no time at all! Next time I'll look for bocage with tall grass/wheat behind it.

So this ATG is 'hiding' in the middle of a wheat field and it's NOT been spotted and killed first shot?????!!!!! :eek:

Going back to the throwing tank tracks after travelling through fences etc. argument, if you look at photo 3 above, you'll clearly see that the Tiger has run over a busted roof tile and spilled its track. Mind you, it was a very large can opener used in photo 2!

I had one occasion when an emergency strike DID fall on target, well about 30metres off, which was near enough to pretty well take out an entire AI led platoon. Usually though emergency fires are off target by 100+ metres in my experience of CM2.

In my 'Tank on Dyke' test (see above), all the guns were under trees in light or heavy forest terrain, sometimes in and sometimes out of foxholes, and they were still spotted immediately and the first tank shot usually suppressed them sufficiently for them to be knocked out within about 60 secs. Occasionally the gun got off a shot before its destruction and even more rarely it actually killed a tank!

Tanks spotting, particularly ATGs, and firing on the fly very nearly put me off this game in the early days. I think the first patch improved things a little but not that much. I set-up a Market Garden type scenario, with Shermans running along the top of a dyke on a main road and various sized ATGs hidden in orchards and woodland 200-300m away. The ATG hardly got off a shot despite not having moved and in some tests still being in hide mode, and yet the Shermans were beautifully silhouetted on top of the dyke. I tried playing both sides in RT with the same result.

The only suggestion I can make is that perhaps the roofs had 'abstracted damage' and the projectile 'abstractly passed through' the 'abstracted' holes! The trajectory and final hit were just luck as previously described. I know CM1 abstracted damage to buildings before they showed the damage graphic so we could be seeing the same here; albeit an incredible fluke. If you have the previous turn saved you could run it through several times and see if it happens again.

Is he buttoned up, mate? Try unbuttoning and re-facing and shoot!