De Savage

And military commanders always want "more tempo, we must have more tempo!".

Thanks for testers so far! Modified map (more space in flanks). Added 10 minutes more time. Updated scenario file in the download link too. Little more testing and it should be ready.

In 1.00 if you left them outside AI PLAN setup zone they stay where they are. If this is changed in 1.01 it seems I need to check my own scenarios too... If you have unused AI plan try to give fortifications different plan (example A8).

Bah... Cut and paste broked link. Here's working link: http://elsavior.albaani.org/share/normandy/Mouse%20trap.btt

Now we need observer ON MAP to call artillery or air missions. I think we need too "un observed artillery" or off map artillery observer. Many times real observer was much further even kilometres away. I'm really looking forward to have "predefined artillery or air missions". This way we can simulate several cases like "artillery spotter plane" or "observer on battleship". Maybe observer can be placed on the edge of the map - give him heigh. He is "virtual onberver" or we can do even without him and make planned artillery (scenario designer plans when arty/air missions arrive and where). Example 1: Battalion is assaulting village 9:00. Heavy bombardment (air & divisional arty) wll begin 8:45 and ends 9:00. No artillery observer is needed - working like pre-artillery for AI side. What you CANNOT DO is cancel or adjust this. Example 2: Bombers will arrive 14:00, drop bombs on enemy. You cannot contact planes, they will do their mission and fly away. Plan you assault after bombs have been dropped. Example 3: For scenario makers they can plan artillery arriving on pre-defined spot on precise time. No need for observers. Benefits: 1) Map's small scale make sometimes artillery missions hard to call (cannot observe spotting rounds. IRL these missions were called much further away example from high church tower. 2) Now it's hard to simulate bocage fighting. Germans had good observation points on hills and church towers. They could (sometimes) adjust artillery from kilometers away. 3) Making Omaha beach scenarios with ships spotting units on the beach. Etc.

Original thread (with screenshots): http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=99317 Someone was looking short scenarios. Here's one under work. Around 25 minutes. Simple, short scenario "Mouse trap". Small (few platoons) US airborne troops dropped to marshland near river Merderet on D-Day. Germans are firing with machine guns and mortars. Get to dry land and secure river bank. You can download test scenario from here: http://elsavior.albaani.org/share/no...use%20trap.btt Need some feedback, thanks! Send private message. After I get feedback I will tweak it (if necessary) and after that it will be released.

I like this idea! Have been thinking the same that against AI there could be extra units. I you have my vote! And for scenario makers, this is OPTIONAL. So if you don't like it, don't use it.

Here's result from one run with Panthers. I used axis vs. axis - so same elite German snipers shooting Panthers instead of Stuarts. First hits 10, 15, 20 and 20 second. After 1 minute, 2 Panthers panicked, two more rattled. Four buttoned. After two minutes, four TCs killed, 8 tanks OK. Totally different result with Panther than with US tanks. This is odd. Very odd.

Even more tests. I removed low bocage, lowered 5 meters to make even more perfect firing position for snipers. Elite snipers 14 lanes, 14 IMMOBILE stuarts, 100 meters. After two minutes - no TC's killed, two tanks buttoned (green tank crew). It seems there is something wrong with the snipers against Sherman or Stuarts tanks. I havent tested this against German tanks. Might do that too to confirm this.

I rerun my test with elite snipers. Finally there was happening something. Against Stuarts German elite snipers 100m away scored ONE tank commander after 1 minute. Two tanks buttoned. After 2 minutes - 3 tank commanders dead, 5 buttoned tanks. I added 14th lane, so there was totally 6 tanks unharmed and unbuttoned. I must say I was expecting most of the tanks to button and more tank commanders dead. Not very elite snipers IMHO. First tank commander was dead around one minute, so it took multiple shots for elite sniper to drop him. Not a single tank buttoned after first shots. I even changed terrain from witch sniper fire to see it if make any difference. Earlier test was made from 2nd floor building (sniper standing inside). I made +3 meters high hill with ow bocage and elite snipers were prone this time. It didn't see any change on that.

Another test round, this time I changed Sherman tanks to M5 Stuarts. Veteran German sniper, range 100 meters. Immobile tanks. 13 lanes. All tank crews green, normal, 0. 1 min - all tanks unbuttoned, several hits to: front hull, weapon mount. and front turret 2 min - 3 tanks buttoned, still no TC's hit. As in Sherman test - it looks like most of the shots are aimed to "tank commander's belly". ---Edit: I wanted to test if this problem occurs with US Springfield sniper. So I changed all German snipers to US snipers. Rerun the test. Very similar effect. No TC's killed in Shermans, but after two minutes there was two buttoned tanks. Firing range was 100 meters.

Another test round. Veteran German sniper, range 200 meters. Immobile Sherman M4A1 (late). 13 lanes. 1 min - all tanks unbuttoned, several hits to: front hull, weapon mount. and front turret 2 min . all tanks still unbuttioned - no TC's hit Second test from 100 meters. 1 min - all tanks unbuttoned, several hits to: front hull, weapon mount. and front turret 2 min . all tanks still unbuttoned - no TC's hit - lot's of "kling kling" from turret and weapon mount hits. But no effect at all. NOTE: I had to modified sniper team to 50%. Assisting MP40 spotter did fire on tanks and on first 10 second about 20% tc's were killed. This is why previous tests had been done with only sniper in team. Going to test this with Stuart tank if it makes any difference.

I made Sherman vs. Sniper test too. 13 lines, divided by building to make one continuous line. Range about 300 meters. Sniper was in second floor - perfect line of sight to target. After two minutes of firing all hits were "front hull". Not a single tank commander was hit. I made the test with regular skill level and with immobilize tank. It seems there is a problem when snipers are firing tanks. Other test against infantry or half-tracks seems ok to me.

I've been reading a book "Dying for Saint-Lô". Good description about battle for Saint-Lô. There was few lines about German snipers who usually killed by first shot from 300-600 meters. It was a pain for US troops to locate sniper in ruined city. I am happy that snipers are not as efffective as they were in older CM. I find it too gamey to fire on tanks with sniper and hopefully to kill TC. I hated that in most H2H games my opponent is using several snipers just to button tank and/or kill my TC. I do believe good sharpshooter can hit accurately up to 800m. CMBN might have lowered accuracy compared to real life. INHO this is good thing. I do not want to see super snipers and overuse of them in H2H. Anyway it's okay to just add little more cover for sniper and little more accuracy. But JUST LITTLE and not to make snipers too effective super-unit.

I too think air support mission should make fewer over flight when low ammo. I tried this with P-47 in my scenario "Gourbesville". I lowered the ammo to minimum, but always plane made 3-5 very deadly strafes. Bombs seems to be fine with low ammo, but strafing is deadly even when plane have "very low ammo".

Here's few more shots of the map. Artillery and smoke would be good. I would by mortars and shell slow rate of suppressing fire. And then before assaulting prison heavy artillery or rockets to destroy enemy forces.

I have used large cathedral. That seems to give quite good protection. Normal smaller church give only little more or even same protection than normal building. But as I said, I haven't tested this, it's only observation of several scenarios I have played.

Many thanks Rambler! Scenario briefing updated. Added few pictures for allied briefing. BTW, changed river to "Merderet". That's more accurate than Douve.

This is very worrying testing. I havent tested it but my observations from playing scenarios confirm this too. Buildings (except church) provide very little cover. We need to do some more testing to confirm this. It seems buildings might not work as they should.

Few sneakpeaks of map:

One question. My arty spotter cannot see target in deployment phase and cant move to better spotting place. Is this working as plan or am I missing something?

Looking for volunteers to play test and briefing grammar check. Simple, short scenario "Mouse trap". About 25 minutes. Small (few platoons) US airborne troops dropped to marshland near river Douve on D-Day. Germans are firing with machine guns and mortars. Get to dry land and secure river bank. Here's briefing: SITUATION 0250 June 6st, 1944. On river Douve, Normandy. This is it. D-Day. US 82nd and 101st Airborne division will be dropped behind Utah and Omaha beaches and will provide flank cover and secure vital bridges and towns. Because of low clouds and surprising heavy anti-air fire many transport planes missed their jump zone by miles. German had flooded part of the lowlands near river Douve. From the air this looked like "low marsland" but in reality it was 1-2 meters deep water. MISSION First priority is to survive. We have to get off from marshland. During the drop we saw enemy machinegun fire coming from near the forest. Better silence those machineguns before more men dies in these marshes. FRIENDLY FORCES Our forces are scattered. Most of the heavy weaponds (machine guns and mortars) was lost in the marsh. We have only light forces. Hopefully more forces will arrive later. ENEMY FORCES Little is known of the enemy. Probably we are near river Douve, so enemy is probably from 91st Luftlande Division. We have received machine gun and mortar fire. Prepare for everything. PLAN Move fast to dry land. Recon enemy positions and clear enemy strongpoints. If possible flank the enemy and stop them from retreating. NOTE Don't be surprised if some enemy decide to withdraw. They are too confused by the situation. You can download test scenario from here: http://elsavior.albaani.org/share/normandy/Mouse%20trap.btt

I have read somewhere that in Normandy most common building material was granite. Granite is one of the most hardest rock. There are of course lighter wood buildings too. About bullet penetration I found one site: http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/762mm_ammo.html From 25m 7.62mm round can penetrate up to 51mm concrete or 203mm cinder block. The 7.62mm round can penetrate a windowpane at a 45° obliquity, a hollow cinder block, or both sides of a car body. At 50 meters, the 7.62mm ball round cannot reliably penetrate a single layer of well-packed sandbags. It can penetrate a single sandbag layer at 200 meters, but not a double layer. The armor-piercing round does only slightly better against sandbags. It cannot penetrate a double layer but can penetrate up to 10 inches at 600 meters. The penetration of the 7.62mm round is best at 600 meters. Most urban targets are closer. The longest effective range is usually 200 meters or less. Continued and concentrated machine gun fire can breach most typical urban walls. Such fire cannot breach thick reinforced concrete structures or dense natural stone walls. Internal walls, partitions, plaster, floors, ceilings, common office furniture, home appliances, and bedding can be easily penetrated by 7.62mm rounds. Breaching a brick veneer presents a special problem. Rounds penetrate the cinder block but leave a net-like structure of unbroken block. Excessive ammunition is required to destroy a net since most rounds only pass through a previously eroded hole. One or two minutes work with an E-tool, crowbar, or axe can remove this web and allow entry through the breach hole.

What game is missing is heavy and light buildings. Or maybe they are there, but it's hard to see which building they are. I do think cathedral and church give you good protection, but most other buildings will not. I too would like to see larger protection inside buildings. The best strategy now is to MG and light gun duldings and soon enemy will rout and retreat. Very easy and usually assaulting is not necessary. Also it seems gunfire is TOO ACCURATE or TOO EFFECTIVE under 50 meters. Whole squads could be wasted in seconds, even if they have some protection (woods or walls etc.). I would like to see less effective fire near the target. Now it's almost impossible to fight in urban enviroment. Now first who sees fire and suppress and other side is annihilated in seconds.

I recently finished reading Adam Tooze's very good book about Nazi-German economics. "The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy". Gives good insight to economy aspect of war. Simply saying German lacked many of the raw materials AND manpower to continue war longer.