sburke

The problem we have is what direction should the tweaks take? This thread started with a player feeling something is borked with spotting a Sherman, meanwhile we have another player who feels just the opposite. We have some folks who feel tanks spot infantry AT assets far too easily while in a pbem game I am playing right now I have successfully killed one Tank with a PF and almost nailed a second..that's like 30m range. Same game I had a shrek team hit another tank, the gunner then got taken out so his asst crawled over, grabbed the shreck and proceeded to immobilize the same tank and was finally taken out when an infantry team tracked him down. Our situation is we have a LOT of anecdotal info based on subjective opinion, but no hard data or a scenario that allows us to reliably duplicate the effect. Without either of those BF is loathe to change anything - change what to do what? I personally think that is a good thing. IF something is borked, we should be able to prove it or reliably duplicate it, then at least BF has something to work with. As it stands now we can't even agree on what it is just a general sense that it doesn't favor us.

Yes you have and with all due respect, it still isn't true. You have started with "it is Western allies versus Germany" and ended with "it MUST be the same Family". What you haven't asked is, what really defines a family as that is very much not how BF defines it and I am fairly certain BF didn't just draw a haphazard line that says, hey if we can generate 3 separate games out of the the battles between the Western allies and Germany instead of just 1, that extra 40$ for the whole shebang is going to make us rich! $40. That's it. That is what you are arguing as the distinction of them selling CMFI and CM Bulge as separate Families. You also confuse me. Why in that logic does CM Bulge get merit as a separate family when CMFI doesn't? CMFI will probably cover a longer period of the war than CMBN and CM Bulge combined. (1943/44 and 45) What it seems to come down to is you don't really think the Mediterranean theater is worth as much from a purely subjective viewpoint. Honestly when it was first announced I wasn't sure what I was going to think about it, but my subjective feelings about the theater have nothing to do with the amount of labor required by all the folks at BF. And for what is worth, I definitely think I have gotten more than my money's worth...again.

I was thinking more of the scene from Life of Brian.

Spotting not having issues doesn't mean units spotting can't have issues. The classic example is the one BF themselves reported where a crewman in the Tiger was sitting 90 degrees to the correct facing. I am still up for taking a look at any other saves you have or come across. Besides I love watching the replays. That doesn't mean you can't also be cursed at the same time. You'd have heard a little swearing in my household last night as my Pz IV had two free shots at one of vKleist's Shermans, however he had crept up to a hedgerow and my rounds kept detonating on it. His round however had no such problem considering I was in the open - 1 dead Pz IV.... sigh.

DC, you need to go HTH against BDW. I have this vision of both of you driving tanks around that can't see one another LOL.

Well back to the OP BDW I had a chance to look at it during lunch (damn I love working from home) There isn't much for me to go on as the action happens right from the start. The preceding minute if you have that turn may actually give more info, however there are a couple relevant points though that may influence this. You have 2 PzIIIN and a Pz IV. The start of the turn the PzIV has already been hit with something (it is showing top hit). If I had to guess I'd suspect it was MG fire at the exposed TC from a Sherman that is about to kill it. The Sherman that has spotted the Pz IV is the BN CO. I honestly don't know how much impact that has, but I suspect some. It is a pretty narrow window the two are facing off over so visibility wasn't great to begin with, being suppressed probably made it nigh impossible. Anyway the point of this is your Pz IV is already peaking it's suppression indicator right at the start of the turn and the Sherman BN CO already has a bead on it. You were dead meat unfortunately. All your crews were regular, I have no idea what experience levels the Sherman had though if this is the default scenario the BN CO crew should be regular. As to the Pz IIINs. Unfortunately one is carrying HE only. The second has HEAT rounds. As the 2nd Med Sherman comes barreling down your HE panzer fires a round to no effect. Your HEAT Pz then fires and gets a penetrating hit, but the Sherman pops smoke and appears functional. This is where I think your curse comes in to effect. The Sherman kills the HEAT Pz right away. If it had killed the HE Pz you might have had a chance, but that Pz III HE just isn't doing anything to the front aspect of the Sherman. I think you landed 3 hits during the turn and I expect that Pz III crew is either hoping to hell the commander is gonna pop smoke and reverse or are saying their final prayers. This particular save doesn't give much data either way as the action is already begun. Everyone who is going to spot has already done so, anyone who hasn't is about to die. If you have any others you can share I'd be happy to look. One thing I have learned from beta testing is I feel totally inadequate to the task. There is always far more I'd like to look at than I have time. Having access to examples of behavior you think is questionable really helps to focus on items that may or may not be out of whack that I just normally wouldn't even think to look at.

Sure, go ahead and make me feel like a luddite. Yeah I admit it, I am way out of touch with where most people get their info, then again I wouldn't trust most reviews anyway. I am a luddite and a cynical skeptic!

thanks BDW, just PM'd you with my email.

Happen to have any saves to look at? There are a number of possibilities as to why, but I don't know that any of those are applicable for you. Be more than happy to look at anything you have and either suggest some answers or throw in my own view that soemthing could be borked. Personally I haven't seen it, but I haven't had that many armor engagements yet, mostly infantry combat.

so you think anyone will notice the influx of positive reviews on Oct 2nd? LOL Hell it took someone pointing it out for me to even know of that site.

LOL There are no more important things. Seriously very much enjoyed the couple turns I saw and will be checking in. Thanks for the link to the previous battle. Like BigDork, I really enjoy reading the AARs. Closest I can get to the game at work - yep another gamerwithjob

very cool. looking forward to DLing it.

ack!!! Only a couple turns out of one scenario of a campaign. Oh man, bummer. Would love to have seen the full thing.

I think you were better off leaving Bil thinking you had magical Shermans. At least until the end of the battle - oh you were assuming he wasn't reading this? (ssssh Bil, he still thinks you aren't reading this).

Just to be devil's advocate here. Considering the round is loaded and the distance is not particularly great. - it took four seconds to slew the turret around and fire. Having no experience in a tank especially a WW2 tank, how long should it take?

I don't think you have been exactly beaten up on this, just you seem to be way in the minority of those who actually participate in the discussion. I am not sure how you evaluate that your position relects "a whole bunch of CM gamers (game partners that I'm not familiar with and that I never met)". Maybe it's true, but maybe you are like one of 5 people. Well BF has to turn a profit to continue to make product and hopefully allow them to look forward to retiring etc. They did eventually drop down the price of the upgrade..sort of. I am not sure they really had a firm view of what it should cost, but when they eventually settled it was way below what the doom criers were saying ($10, $5 if you wait for the MG module). So there is nothing wrong with wanting a reasonable price. However the issue seems to be that you don't want reasonable. $55 for CMFI and all it's modules is very unreasonable and would drive BF out of business. You might have better luck if you started with saying modules maybe being $25 or $30. Instead you took what is currently a projected price of $160 and dropped it to $55. How is that being even remotely reasonable?

Just to say it - If I can expect 4 NEW families and 8 modules from whatever family over the next 3 years, I am gonna be piddling like a puppy out of sheer happiness. You realize that equates out to less than $14 a month right?

Certainly. But don't get mad at me when I continue to purchase the games, even pre order as my addiction is too strong - no interventions please. As just one small example. I still boot up CMSF on a regular basis. I can't name any other PC game I purchased that long ago that gets the same treatment.

Hi moet, I did understand your point, but no I don't accept your reasoning nor do I intend to follow your suggestion. As everyone else has noted, the relative cost of CM and the amount of enjoyment I get out of it make it the best value for the money I get from any entertainment media around. Here is how I evaluate BFs pricing and business model: 1 Do I get my money's worth out of what I spend on the game? Assuredly so- the cost of CM comes out to pennies per minute when I see how much I play it. (actually fractions of pennies, but that is higher math ) 2 Is the profit on the product enough to keep CM in business? I don't really know how well BF is doing, but all indications are they are healthy and I can expect to see them around for quite a bit. 3 Are idiots still lining up around the block to buy the latest iPhone with very little reason to actually have to upgrade? Yeah this probably has very little to do with evaluating CM- but it is interesting to see how people will spend a honkin lot more money and feel it is totally justified. If BF did that CMFI would likely be the last game they produced. You'd better really like that game as it'd be the last BF product you'd be able to buy.

So do we, but the "clinics provide their own "doctors". Get headaches, hmm we think we need to prescribe something... Appetite problems, hmm we think we can prescribe something.

Man I'd hate to see you "throw in the towel". Look at it this way, I am JUST getting to NDs TF Panther and enjoying the hell out of it. That one was posted over 3 years ago. Don't fall for the instant gratification thing. I am loading another copy of CM just so I can run Makin and not worry about the mod effect on other games. That may be at least party why you aren't seeing more downloads, the mods impact every game someone is playing unless they think to load additional copies. It is easy enough to do and affects nothing other than drive space.

LOL eeewwwwwww a squishy. Now who's turn is it to clean off the treads? Maybe that is what immobilized it and not the grenade....

Geez Pete, all it needs is a town below the monastery type building and you have a mini Monte Casino.

Well man best of luck, hope the most exciting thing you see is the firing range. We expect much more detailed feedback and general grogness in time for CMSF2.

It is the only water AS on the map LOL. You really need to correct your monitor situation (or maybe visit the optometrist - when was your last check up? )