slysniper

Well, thus the reason for the thread, I enjoy city fights now and just really wanted to hear why some have issues with them still. Some good points have been brought out and there is always room for improvements, no harm in discussing that. But none of these issues should stop someone from playing or finding present tactics that work. But some might disagree with that.

Well, you will be glad to know that BF sees it your way, they do try to get the AI to do the small task and want you the player to focus on the larger picture. The problem is, as the game becomes more complex, that is much harder to do and get it to react realistically. Thus players, start wanting commands that can control or override the AI. Thus in a sence why we keep seeing request for better AI or for more commands. It is likely a area that will never cease to have issues and getting the right balence to keep the game playable is also a issue. There is no questions, Playing CMX2 was less enjoyable at first because of all the added micro managing one must do. But developing the game where it is not needed is even a bigger request which will not likely be adcheived with such limited resources.

Now, here is a good point I have not thought about. Yes, this is a pain in the present state and one of the real weaknesses of the game engine as is. It would be nice to see that changed somehow. I know for me, i have adapted my tactics to just havng to roll my tank right up to the building i want to area fire on and risk being that close to the enemy to do it. In someways, it takes away some of the armor advantages they have in town at the moment anyway, of course having proper infantry support helps this work. But grenades and immobilization from the enemy is very common. So yes, siting back and being able to area fire would aid the armor being even more powerful in town.

Actually I am pretty sure it was not you as to the comment that started me thinking about it. But I am glad you made this statement, I feel the same, would love additional improvements, but dont mind thinking about playing something in its present state.

Of course camo. works, against the human eye anyway. The problem is, how much weaponry relies on the human eye only anymore. Not much. And in the future, likely even less, with even an infantry man having access to high tech vision aids. But high tech camo. will likely be developed also, so we will see. But vs. the Human eye, camo. is great, it depends on the quality and use, but it sure can deceive the Human eye. My most amazing experience as a sniper was once on maneuvers I was on an Intel. mission behind enemy lines, as dawn approached I had not made it back out because another sniper team had been spotted doing the same operation in a different area of the line and set their whole area on alert. Patrols were now high and I had a road blocking me from crossing it because it now had patrols moving up and down it. I had no choice but to cross and try and make a downhill slope on the other side which would hide my movement hopefully. But 4 men had easy view of where I was wanting to cross and that was the best area I found. Needless to say, I tried timing it and moving in a manor to not be detected, but before I made it 2/3rd across, someone had turned and I was spotted. I leaped for the bank and ran, tumbled and fell down the hill. But I could only go so far before I had to stop and try to find concealment and stop my motion because I knew that many eyes would be searching for me down this hillside. I could hear the enemy running, shouting and trying to pinpoint where I had crossed the road. I had no time to prep my hide, there were only knee high grasses and some straggly bushes, and my saving grace was I had my gillie suit on. I could hear two patrols moving down the hillside searching for me, they were discussing the fact that they did not think I could reach the stream that was at the base of the hill and that I was likely hiding somewhere. The one team passed my location very close and then moved on a short distance. After a while they became discouraged and started changing their mind that I had made it to the base of the hill and was now somewhere on the other side where there was good concealment. But before they went back up to the road they fanned out and did a grid search for me. One man walked by me went no more than a meter or two above me on the hill then turned and walked parallel along the hill and stopped almost on top of me. I could hear him breathing, I was so afraid he was looking right at me , but I could not know because I had my face buried in the dirt and focused on moving or breathing beyond the minimum of my ability. But I felt I could have touched him if I tried. I thought he would hear my heart because it was pumping so hard and I so scared. He then walked off and it was almost over, I was afraid to move for another 15 minutes or so, but then I worked my way down the hill and back to safety. In that early morning light, what saved me was a gillie suit and the items I had done from my boots to fingernails to the tip of my noise to become nothing more than the ground that was around me. It still amazes me to this day that it worked that day.

And i think to myself, so the tank sure could not do that, but the crew sure could have popped a hatch and tossed grenades out there to waste them units. So when you want things to go your way because it did not happen realistically in the game, remember the other side can say the same thing. So if they fix the tank to not be able to fire unrealistically, then thy also better fix it to represent some other tactics it might use to deal with infantry in close combat situations.

True, likely not easy fixes. But they have made adjustments to the protection and I can tell you right now. I have poured hundreds to thousands of rounds into buildings with known enemy units and not been able to kill or hurt them at times now. So I know for a fact that in the present game system, I have found myself multiple times having a hard time overcoming a enemy tactical point in a city and that is with me having a commanding firepower advantage. Now with the improved MG factor, I could see a enemy mg in a strong building becoming even harder to dislodge. So the present level is not all bad. As for path finding, there is a way to go for sure. But I find this issue has much to do with the player and what they are playing. I never really play vs the AI. so I do not see that stupid level of play much. Second, as I move units through cities. my squads are broken down. I control moves so that men are not standing in the street unless I want them to, any time I am going through a door where there might be enemy contact, I likeky am only sending a two or three man team with cover units if anything opens up on them. So most of this junk never happens to me, so I dont see it as much of a issue.

Ok, I have had that type of thing happen also. Smoked a enemy tank, ran two tank teams into the smoke and laid them down behind the tank to get a ass shot when the smoke cleared. Sure enough, they could never see the tank but the tank could see them and wasted both units before I could do anything. I am not sure they have attempted to fix the tank spotting issue but I think they have made it harder for tanks to spot infantry since then. What I have discovered is, it is better to stay out of smoke and spot into it then it is to try to spot out of smoke which has started to clear. Since I have used that concept, normally I get the spotting advantage when using smoke. Plus that is a more realistic result. Since trying to see out of smoke is much harder than seeing into it in R.l., I really do not know if the game acts this way, but my results in game play seems to indicate their is some advantage for it.

Last week someone made a comment about not wanting to do any city fighting until Bf did some changes in the game system. I have been thinking about that ever since, wondering what they ***** is so wrong with the game that they would say that. Yes, I know there is areas that could improve. But I have played a fair amount of city type maps now and find the game play to be more realistic than any other system I have ever played. The one aspect I really like now is the demo. being able to be used as a breaching tools. Every battle I have had them I have manage to surprise the enemy with my direction of approach and gain a important advantage. So I was thinking, Ok, I know some of the issues, like men not using corner of buildings as cover to look around. Or tanks that have no gun elevation issues, or the magic door or window issue every once in awhile. But to tell you the truth. I cannot remember that last building door issue that has been really bad for awhile, so maybe they have fixed that to some extent. the tanks being able to fire on any building level, yet to affect me much. First , I find that I can hide men in buildings right next to the tank. so if he can spot and fire on me, he deserves to, second, if tanks are in town I find them easy prey for my infantry if they have the weapons needed and the map is not a terrible design. So bring them tanks down my streets. The building corner, yes, that would be nice, but come on, what other game that is using multiple units in one formation having that type of control, plus really is that a game breaker. So what is it I am missing here. I find the city fights very enjoyable, the tactics very challenging and realistic at the moment. what is it that is needed that will just bring this game to a whole other level of improvement that I should not want to play with without it.

Good catch, likely a design flaw. But maybe not a issue for shoot and shoot - depends. I like to move up into place and then have them shoot in one turn. So after they have moved, that order is completed and they should have good accuracy, they next turn I generally reverse them out of action immediately or maybe after one shot. So that shot might be affected by what you have found.

Forgot about that one, not bad. But the greatest of all time, come on. You cannot even create another battle with it. Too bad it has not progressed in the years since

Here is the spot to speak up and say if you believe CMx2 is presently the greatest tactical level game ever created. I for one cast a vote that it is. I went through years of Avalon hill games, spending most of my time with SL & ASL, but did many others of their titles also. Computer games were toys and it was many years before finally a game came out that captured the firefight correctly. It was the close combat series, my time then went away from board games and finally I could see that I would never be happy going back. So ASL was sold and close combat became my love. Then I played the total war series also, fun and enjoyable but not to the realism that I craved. CMBO game out, I tried it but it was a while before I really fell in love with it, but once I did, it has been CM ever since. I fired up a old CMx1 battle the other day, it is the first time in over a year to touch it. Again it seems to find a place now to stay in the past and I do not want to return. I have the best possible game available right now. And it appears it will stay that way for a while to come. Likely until BF decides to reinvent the engine again and push it to new levels We are so negative on the this board so much, time to have a BF thread to let them know their efforts are great.

Yes, I have seen most of that footage before, many times - In B & W, but it is interesting to see it in color, it does bring out things differently when seen that way.

Played a Ton of RO also, mostly tank battles, My figures are too slow to be good at the infantry stuff, I could only hold my own there. But in the Tank battles , I could have my moments of glory. But when RO2 came out, that is when I shelved it. I was already pretty tired of the unrealistic tactac that one plays in them games, there was times when certain guys were pretty good at working some teamwork into it, but it never last and then you are back to foolish play. I must be showing my age, that stuff does not interest much anymore.

Amen to that, I have learned this the hard way myself, but I have used it on the enemy and have had the same results. No, I have not done any real testing on it, but I did do some and I was amazed how many times I lost the gun after receiving approx. 6 hits on my heavy cats.

I am one as far as the game is concerned, will even take on a panther from the front with 75's, given I have 3 or 4 that I can bear on it. I still feel given about a 1/2 dozen hits on it before it kills all your units will likely give it a damaged gun and make it worthless. I have seen that play out so much I question if its a game design flaw. But other discussions make it a question as to what % of a chance should that happen anyway. But in the game at present, it is a option if you have no other better choices.

I understand, and agree that if you have it, at least make it as good as you can. But BFC has made the statement that when they adjusted the points in CMX1, that it never solved the issues, there was always somepart of the group that was not happy with them and that it was a never ending debate, thus they were not going down that path again. Thus there will be no point adjustments to the system they have come up with unless there is a error or basic concept flaw But I still like the concept of the rarity factor being used to a random availability instead of the present concept. As to my statement about meeting engagements and QB's, it was just pointing out that is what is played the most but in general is the least realistic. So statements about wanting to be realistic dont fit well when we turn around and play them things. I just love to pick on them, to me they are the most boring battles because of the lack of tactics within them in general.

Why is it you all get all worked up about the pricing of units, like there would ever be a system that could somehow compute the perfect even match up with two different armies. Every system will likely have a flaw, and one side will have a purchasing advantage. I do not see why so many players will not just play red on red or blue on blue. Such a simple answer, so fair. But no, we cannot do that, that is not right, we need to play opposing armies in a meeting engagement. Like that has much to do with reality either. Anyway, I did like the concept that rarity would mean that if you choose that side, the rare units might or miight not be available.. If big cates only showed up in 15 % of the battles, that might change things somewhat would'nt it.

Did you say "Bored". Go away you game addict, if this game bores you, you need your junky fix somewhere else. This is the only game that I have ever found that does not bore me. I can always find new battles to develope and test units against other units in unusual combat situations. The only problem I find is not having the time it takes to do all the battles that I dream up. Just with the latest 2.01 change I just had to set up a battle and see what a couple of German halftracks could do with a platoon of infantry against a platoon of American infantry on defence. I wanted to see if the improved accuracy of the MG's made them a trump card in the battle. needless to say. They were the key to destroying the enemy platoon - You are Bored, I am not.

That is more like it, No, not a good practice, but m10's can take on panthers from the front if no other option is available. I think part of the problem with the situation mentioned is. They have better luck in the game if there is distance rather than if they are right next to the panther. It has to do with the auto mid mass aiming point maybe. At 25 meters you are going to hit just where you dont want to. Not sure, put I have had more luck killing panthers at 300 meters than at 25

Who made the grand decision that tanks would not push or tow other tanks out of their way, saying the game is wrong for letting units move past wrecked units blocking the path. Or that tankers would patiently wait for a dozer tank to come along and clean up the mess. Lets put you in a platoon of tanks on a one lane road with no exit other than on the road forward or back. A enemy AT gun takes out the lead tank, then the second before your remaining three tanks destroy it. No other fire seems to be coming in and your mission is to lead and clear the roadway to the next junction. what are you going to do. Well if its me, I dont want to sit there very long, figuring if the enemy had a AT gun focused on this point, likely Arty will be raining down soon or they might be pulling up reserves to finish the job that has been started. I figure most would either use their tanks to try and push the units out of the way enough to progress or tow or something. Better chance that than any other option. If things go bad and you wreck your tank, oh well, still a better option than what others are saying here. So maybe all the game needs is a feature that if you are moving through wrecked equipment, there is risk added for immobilization like is already present in the game for terrain. Say , if a tank passes through a truck , not much risk. But if it has to pass through another tank, a very high risk, like a 30% it also will be immobilized. That would make a road jamb real quick. Anyway, you get the concept.

HURRAY, I loaded the update but did not even think about what it was improving, only had one game going on in 2.0 at the moment. So have not noticed the differences. But Thank You, Thank, You, Thank you for the adjustments in Mg's and Pistols. That right there makes for a much better game. I just have to remember, good things will come. I just have to wait long enough.

Oh, that is just Horrific Thanks for wrecking my day:D

Oh, I dont care about looking foolish. And I dont go about making things up. I know I have seen the bug in the game and I dont know if maybe its one of those type of bugs that show up just once in awhile, or maybe the latest patches have fixed it or what. But I do know beyond any shadow of a doubt i have had it happen and more than once and no question as to it being the unit feeding the information to me. Since, I checked by clicking on units and it was the only one that showed the enemy units:)

Who did that paint job, some girl trying to make it look pretty